Female Entitlement

GuyFromUrals640

Vasily Neyasov: Man from the Urals (1959)

Back in the old days, it was customary for men to treat random, unknown females with a certain measure of respect and decorum. Such demands were placed on us by default. These demands were reasonable, in historical context, because the average woman was:

  • not allowed to be a “loud and proud” skank-ho bitch
  • not allowed to whore around openly
  • faithfully married to a man who was busy building civilization
  • the mother of such a man’s children

Women grew entitled to such courtesies, and began expecting them as a matter of course, even as they agitated for the right to not marry, refuse motherhood, whore around openly, and shoot their mouths off in public.

Thanks to filthy skank-ho wimminz, we now live in a feminist matriarchy, where all the worst female behavior is explicit everywhere. Despite their “liberation,” wimminz still expect men to keep up their end of the bargain they broke. While many wimminz are too stupid to understand the consequences of their pathetic collective behavior, some wimminz actually have the temerity to whine in the press about the results of their pathetic “revolution,” which any intelligent person could have predicted from the get.

Comes now Lizzy Acker, to lecture us on our duties.

1

This article has been redacted, with inline responses, to demonstrate a transformative purpose. The link is above, and I encourage all my readers to peruse the original.

In several days, I will be 38 weeks pregnant, and I ride the bus twice a day.

Good for you, Lizzie!

…I’ve noticed an interesting phenomenon on the bus. When it’s full, usually when I stop in the morning for a chocolate croissant or when I am heading home from downtown in the afternoon, the people who give me their seat are almost exclusively women, and usually older women.

That’s nice of them. Sisters doing it for themselves, and all that jazz.

The priority seating area is frequently full of young-ish people, a lot of them men, with headphones on, entranced with their phones. They don’t even glance up to see who might have just walked onto the bus.

The atomized dystopia we live in is a direct result of radical feminists, exactly like yourself. You and your sisters engineered this mess, and now you have the audacity to complain about it.

Not only do they ignore me, the very pregnant lady, I’ve seen them ignore elderly people with canes or heavy bags.

I expect they would. In a world where every polite gesture is used against them, as an excuse to accuse them of sexual harassment, it’s safer just to keep one’s headphones in.

Recently I was on a bus where an older woman gave me her priority seating seat. Then another pregnant woman got on and another older woman gave her her priority seat. The young men occupying the other seats just sat there.

Am I crazy to find this behavior annoying and antisocial?

Radical feminists have created a world in which men are punished for their kindnesses, and where every healthy male instinct toward civilization is used against them. Our behavior may seem annoying and antisocial, but it’s proven to be the path of least resistance when dealing with wimminz, and as such, it is a sensible response to material conditions.

Author: Boxer

Sinister All-Male Dancer. Secret King of all Gamma Males. Member of Frankfurt School. Your Fave Contrarian!

132 thoughts on “Female Entitlement”

  1. Here is another gem from the black community. This dude gives one hell of a dose of reality to black men than any of the tradcon church simps in the Dalrockian echo chamber…

  2. Bitch, wherez your husband? /S

    Question for th’ lady (/S) ..

    You want random strangers to offer you something you didn’t earn or negotiate in good faith?

    Pack your bags men .. she aims to send us on a guilt trip.
    Because the right gender didn’t kowtow to her wishes.

    It isn’t good enough someone gave up their seat for you. You just aren’t happy who gave you that seat.

    You ungratetul fool!

  3. “Pregnant person…?” No.

    Now a “pregnant woman…?” Every time.

  4. @Boxer
    Nothing to add, everything to be said was stated. Wanted to highlight this humourous bit:
    ” Not only do they ignore me, the very pregnant lady, I’ve seen them ignore elderly people with canes or heavy bags. ”
    Always recruiting. Always recruiting other victim groups to their victim cause.

    @jg1
    Great find. Listened through the end. This video was a rapid-fire knowledge drop like the punchlines of a Rodney Dangerfield set.
    Best line: ” she’s walking in with an exit plan ” 10/10. Phenomenal sign-out too.

  5. I’ve raised my boys to be aware of the elderly and to get up and give them their seat; it’s the courteous and correct thing to do.
    As far as pregnant women, well… they have kind of cooked their goose, so to speak….can’t expect the courtesy of the men you tear down and insult for their chivalry. Things have gone too far and it’s just plain sad. Men can’t be men and women are, well…men, I guess.

  6. Question: Who –or perhaps the operative pronoun is what— got that hideous thing pregnant?

    I cannot imagine any human male not under hypnosis or some form of mind-altering narcotic willingly doing what it takes to impregnate THAT. “She” must have gone the turkey baster route, or otherwise used some form of artificial insemination. Whatever the method, God help the offspring!

  7. As of this morning (0430 central) the poll is 84.5% to “give up your seat” to 15.5% to “I got here first”.

    Everyone agruing for “I got here first” are being called incels. Get used to it fella’s .. they think it sway our thinking.

    Th’ wimminz campaign to shame us with “manspreading” (on public transportation) didn’t work, so now they demand we stand while you sit.

    Weak me will offer you their seat. I ain’t no (heh) weak man bitch!

    Western Wimminz are hovering around 300 pounds overweight .. a solid 200 of that is (a bad) attitude!

  8. This is what “th wimminz” and “clown-world” want for you (i.e. us men) ..

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/lawsuits-possible-bankruptcy-declining-members-is-there-a-future-for-the-boy-scouts/2019/09/11/54699d6a-ce53-11e9-8c1c-7c8ee785b855_story.html?noredirect=on

    The “Boy Scouts” have been compromised .. willingly? .. un-willingly? .. willfully? .. illegally? .. rightfully? etc .. How about .. WITH the approval of the US CITIZEN-ry

    If they can destroy them without an uproar (well the Girl Scouts don’t count as an uproar .. more of a silent whimper) then they will vote themselves whatever they want at our (i.e. menz) expense.

    Anyone, here, think it was a good idea to let “th wimminz” vote?

    If you do then don’t get upset at the (clown-)world you’ve observed and helped create. Odds are if you agree with “give up your seat” than you probably don’t see any problems with the current state of our clown-world.

    Just remember fella’s .. wimminz destroy .. they don’t create .. civilizations.

    Ask Adam about the nature of wimminz .. just remember he was a blue-pill cuck when you listen / observe his lamenations.

  9. Fixed it ..

    “Weak men will offer you their seat. I ain’t no (heh) weak man bitch!”

  10. ” Everyone agruing for “I got here first” are being called incels. Get used to it fella’s .. they think it sway our thinking.

    Th’ wimminz campaign to shame us with “manspreading” (on public transportation) didn’t work, so now they demand we stand while you sit. ”

    Classic projection. Shame is the tactic that works most with women. They live and breathe by social interactions, status, ‘standing’ in society. Their worth is perceived. Her identity is found in those around her: chiefly among them her husband (if she is wise enough to marry young, not slore around, secures a good man). Shame destroys all this.

    By projection, they assume shame will work on men. Men live and breathe accomplishments, power. Their worth is earned. Shame does nothing. Man has always faced the wind and rain alone.

    Ignore the outbursts. Keeping shaming away.

    Completely OT: I believe fat shaming is making a come-back. I was listening to morning talk radio on the local alt-rock FM station (I needed background noise) going into work a few days ago, and the male and female hosts were both rambling a bit about the shame associated with being overweight, how terrible it is to go through life with medical issues, how no one will tell you to your face but everyone judges you, how self-discipline is achieved one not-Oreo at a time. I was pleasantly surprised at the dialogue, considering it being a common local station and during one of the prime times.

  11. Boxer is correct…feminism is the epitome of wanting their cake and eating it too.

    Ladies you can’t be the head and also expect men to be the head. One of these will be sacrificed….either you get women who think they are the head and men become weak heads….or you go with how God set things up where men are the head and women aren’t. Since feminism isn’t going away anytime soon…get use to weak headed men not giving up their seat because we are ‘equal’ ladies.

  12. Question: Who –or perhaps the operative pronoun is what— got that hideous thing pregnant?

    My guess is he’s got soy boy face practiced very well.

  13. Everyone agruing for “I got here first” are being called incels.

    That tends to be the retort to the men who are fed up with women who think they can be feminists and women.

  14. Worst of all. The woman in question is too stupid to connect the dots as you have. No female readers will even waste thier time with your blog. They’ll label you as a misogynist and move on.

    Then they’ll continue to criticize, berate, and blame men for everything.

    Feminism truly is a sociological black hole

  15. That tends to be the retort to the men who are fed up with women who think they can be feminists and women.

    You could have just ended that statement after the first instance of the word “women” and not lost any context at at all.

  16. You could have just ended that statement after the first instance of the word “women” and not lost any context at at all.

    No…unlike what some people think I do think women have agency to either choose to be how God created them or to be the feminist militant freak show the world brainwashes them into thinking they should be. If they choose clownword…they get clownworld results.

  17. I really like this video. There’s some good information for the young men in here.

  18. She is the type of woman who behind you in Safeway has two items, and you have a cart full of stuff will “politely demand” that she goes before you because she has only two items, and she’s “in a big hurry” and if you refuse, on to her blog to complain about the lack of “decency” in the world today. She might even get the manager….you know…because she’s in a “hurry”

    I ride public transportation frequently and I move for senior citizens (and I don’t care what sex the person is). I at one time gave up my seat for a woman…….not for a long time. If indeed we are “equal” she deserves no special treatment because she is a woman……and women in general have demanded they are “equal or better” at everything today, they can stand if there isn’t a seat, or like everyone else…….wait til one frees up. I have helped a woman off the bus or street car when she has little ones, and her hands full trying to get on or off. That has nothing to do with chivalry, or “getting her phone number” or “white knighting”

    That is just basic manners and general principles.

    Too many men on another blog…..heck, just about all of them………wonder why the country has gone to sh*t and then they boast on how they are not like Adam…..who was “nice” and didn’t obey his god given masculinity….and we all know if Cane, Dalrock, Scott, Deti, and the rest of the crew would have never listened to Eve. Their masculinty will be compromised if they dareds just did anything out of Christian charity. Hence why its a cold dying, rotten faith.Men with basic principles and who actually wanted to see jesus don’t buy it, don’t come to church and will continue to leave. I still find it very impossible to believe when courting their future wives they never laughed. They never did anything for their future wife. Never bought her a gift. Never took her out……..they were just “natural alphas” who laid down the line about how their marriage was going to be, and that was it. She never questioned, or suggested. They do it all. Their wive just spreads her legs. Has zero opinions. Well, they make it out that way. We know better. It’s smack talk…..I’m the real man in the room talk.

    This woman is a cretin, no doubt……….as for “who would get that pregnant” the thirst is deep and real out there…..and call it a hunch, it wasn’t a soyboy…….it was a thirsty alpha type. Seem these amazing “game types: in action first hand in San Francisco. Some playa type f*cked her, told all his guy pals in a forum like Dalrock that he nailed a “perfect ten”

  19. What’s wrong with using manners? With being kind? This morning while I was walking across the street to the sushi shop to buy my lunch a very good looking gentleman around 35ish who was already in the shop saw me coming and before I had even stepped onto the footpath had stepped forward to open the door for me. Not only did he hold the door open for me, he also stepped back and invited me to go first. It was a lovely gesture. Very chivalrous. I noticed it, and appreciated it, because it very rarely happens anymore. The state of this world is very sad. People are so caught up in themselves and have forgotten their manners and respect and courtesy.

  20. Karen…there is nothing wrong with this……the problem lies within women “expecting” it, then demanding equal treatment on anything and everything…….expecting the man to cater to their social and economic whims…treating them as an equal yet demanding and expecting special treatment just because they are a woman. This is where the confusion comes in…..for men. A man is kind, we’ll he’s a chump, nice and “just wants to get into the girls pants”

    and if he isn’t

    “No respect or real nice guys left at all in the world today”

    In the man-o-sphere any action of manners is now accepted as chump behavior……..any decorum means you are a white knight and a soy boy, a closet feminist……..

    Hence most men today are just done. Anything rejects them from women unless they are WAY above average in the looks dept, and have an ego the size of god…….and with their fellow brothers any behavior that is deemed polite is now “not being a real man, catering to women and not standing up for yourself”

    A vast swath of men are lost and the my advice to them is to not to follow “jesus” or “read the bible” or “go to church” (that will make you in the end suicidal) but to actually study grandpa or the greatest generation (WW II guys). Lived through a depression, defeated facism (not these street Antifa punks we have today), came back and went to work. They knew how to dress, knew the value of a dollar, and could care less overall what people thought of them and instead thought about what they could do for their own family, their own neighborhood and just did the best they could

  21. And the ass-scratchers in the pulpit on Sunday be it the priest, pastor, reverend or “deacon” in the churches who lecture the flock on how to behave and “be like jesus” need to take a lesson. In the American churches today…all of them…..catholic, protestant or orthodox………..the holymen here have a lower trust than most police today, or federal employees. Nurses are trusted more than a priest now. Inside the church, all will say nothing is wrong, all the leaders in the church will belittle the rest of us………..never asking why or even listening to why the men left or won’t come.

    I get more everyday life wisdom from the hindu working at the local 7-11, and that says a lot about the church today. They won’t see it. They’re too busy on the sinking ship actually behaving like a white knight, telling the men who bailed into the lifeboats that “they won’t go down with the ship like a real man! They don’t want to be like those men on the Titanic! Women and children first!!!”

    as I recall , the final book in the bible reserves a lot of “righteous anger” and “judgment” for the church. Too bad these folks don’t believe it, its always the “other” church or holiness tradition, not theirs!

    Still looking for where it says to “pray to / worship mary” and “reciting liturgical texts in a chant to painted saints” somehow isn’t idoltry

  22. A pregnant woman expecting able-bodied people to give up their seat to her on a bus isn’t exactly expecting anything other than basic manners and courtesy. Priority seating on a bus (as per the article) is for the elderly, disabled, injured or otherwise limited people to sit. In my part of the world it’s the law that able-bodied people give up their seat for anyone in that category. Pregnant women are included in the picture above priority seating. Busdrivers kick people off who disregard this law.
    I doubt anybody expects that seats should be given up to able-bodied women.

  23. I’m in Australia, honeycomb. But according to Wikipedia it’s not just Aussie that requires able-bodied people to give up their seats to pregnant women. Just about every country has priority seating on public transport that is for elderly, disabled, pregnant women. But men of the “manosphere” (whatever that is) still expect heavily pregnant women to stand, right, while they sit in the priority seating area and look at their phones?

  24. Sorry, email address muddle in the email section of my previous comment. Auto-correct didn’t care for my version and changed it.
    Is anybody else here from the land down under (Aus) or are you all Americans?

  25. Thankfully I am not from OZ. Women only bus stops, women demanding “equality” and then still expecting men to shoulder a burden….unless he looks like a sufie……then you know, he’s excused from any standard of conduct.

    Again…..I don’t have to give up my seat for a woman, just because she is a woman. Pregnant or not. This woman in the OP is hard to tell if she is pregnant or just obese.

    It’s not my duty as a man to determine this……..and as for “bus drivers” kicking people off buses. Never seen it happen in the USA, India, Japan, the UK, or Canada. I ride public transportation frequently. I am one of the ten Americans who doesn’t own and really doesn’t need a car……….drivers WILL stop a bus and take a thirty five, I mean ten minute break because their “Union” demands that every hour………..hence why our public transportation actually can’t get anywhere on time

  26. Karen .. I don’t regard “Wiki” an authority on any topic. Nor should anyone with knowledge of how that site works.

    Lets start with .. you Aussie’s don’t support your own causes ..

    https://thetakeout.com/australian-vegan-cafe-that-charged-18-man-tax-closes-1834334575

    The manosphere called this one (re: closing) .. even in a heavily FemBot nation such as Aussie-Land.

    You don’t trust your own citizens with guns .. AND have to legislate feminist talking points. [1]

    So, generally, from what I’ve noticed is ypu don’t trust your own citizens and you have to force (so called) virtue on them.

    Sounds great (NOT).

    [1] “A government big enough to give you everything you want, is a government big enough to take away everything that you have.”

  27. And as boxer said in his OP………its safer to keep your headphones on……one wrong move as a man today (one that does not have the looks, money or status) to a woman spells the end of your career, livelihood and situations where no one, especially fellow men…..will not back you up. Women like this one in the OP got exactly what she wanted “equality”
    and wow……..no surprise there…….she doesn’t like it

  28. from her picture, there are plenty of seats on that light rail / bus for her to sit btw…….she just didn’t get the seat she wanted……women (and men) like this get all butthurt the second they don’t get exactly what they want. Life really blows……..and it isn’t fair, and the cosmic joke of it all is that we expect it to be fair and just…….we expect special treatment for every nuance seen or unseen in our lives and the reality is that real growth and maturity……and manners comes from a place when its not expected, legislated or “laws passed to make you give me respect”

    Was reading an article about living in Caracas recently….there is the utopia our former president Jimmy Carter hailed as a “great country”

    No thanks Jimmy. I don’t want the “equality” to “equally starve”

  29. I rarely have the opportunity to give up my seat, but I’ve done so in the past. I’m usually traveling with my children, a number of which are disabled. People will sometimes give up their seats for us, but we are content to choose a seat in the back or stand.

    The key is not to be entitled, but to be humble. People will generally give up their seat to someone who is truly in need and not causing a scene. I’d be willing to bet that most of the time even the most headphone-wearing MGTOW would give up their seat for my daughter. The ironic “paradox” is that my daughter is a true fighter and would make due in any situation without complaining, while Lizzy could easily make due but chooses to complain instead. One gets a seat, the other does not.

  30. Closer still, Chinatown in San Francisco on any of the buses that run through there (30 Stockton Route comes to mind). You will be the first one standing at the bus stop. The bus pulls up, and suddenly like roaches from every corner mean aggressive old chinese ladies, chinese men that spit at your feet swarm in, push and shove and now you are number 150 in line……and in many cases, you have to wait for the next bus….

    easier to walk. of course the drivers don’t want to be accused of “racism” so they do nothing, say nothing and the rest of the proles are “lectured” about chinese culture and we have to be “accepting” of this.

    oddly enough, if YOU as a white man push and shove on the 30 Stockton Bus Route……..bloggers like Lizzy here will lecture about the lack of decency and respect today from “men” (ie meaning ‘white men’)

    In California we have radio commercials for Kaiser, the big HMO out here…..now, I am pleased with my care at Kaiser, and I like my doctor… but these commercials have the “know it all” woman lecturing us. She must a real treat to be married to. She sounds like Lizzy here……smug liberal who “just knows it all” and if we all just behaved like her, all would be well. This one is tame, but still condescending….but many of them are just terrible. CLogging the California airwaves daily at work.

  31. “Closer still, Chinatown in San Francisco [..] The bus pulls up, and suddenly like roaches from every corner mean aggressive old chinese ladies, chinese men that spit at your feet swarm in, push and shove and now you are number 150 in line”

    Accurate. The Chinese approach takes some getting used to, but it does illustrate that Lizzy is whining about completely cultural expectations. She failed to notice that society can’t denounce the family, masculinity, and gender differences and expect to retain the cultural niceties that come with it. Reciprocity is required. To the Chinese this means everyone is equally rude to everyone else. We could get back to the historical norms in America, but not without restoring reciprocity. That bus has left the station. Welcome to Chinatown.

  32. Chinatown .. hold my beer ..

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/09/03/vegan-sues-her-neighbors-barbecuing-their-backyard-australia/2196077001/

    Karen .. the Aussie .. lives in a true mind-trap of rational-lies ..

    The government has to force FemBot friendly laws and all they get is entitled wimminz demanding you not grill your meat .. I guess they’ll have to take th ole “shrimp on the Barbie” out of the lexicon.

    I mean that’s a mean way to treat “Barbie” (heh) and if you do grill your meat you’re gonna get sued. [1]

    [1] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qvgkmd/massive-bbq-planned-next-to-home-of-vegan-cilla-carden-who-sued-neighbors-over-meat-smells

  33. Now….we all know the “real men” won’t stand for this. They would tell that “Vegan” about “property rights” and the usual nonsense……….but when the cease and desist order from the court comes, the police, the newspapers arrive, social media……trial by the court of public opinion, their kids harassed in school, their NAWRLT subservient wife being harassed in the local market, their public life plastered all over the web…….. and actually having to “deal” with this instead of comfortable armchair comments from the small corners of Redditt, and WordPress………this crew would cave pretty quick.

    The ones who don’t pay a huge price, and will get the usual “christianity is suffering” playbook

  34. The issue is priority seating, not a standard seat. Priority seating is for elderly, disabled, injured, pregnant. That is what priority seating is specifically for. I have not travelled outside of Australia but in all the major cities here, it is fully expected that anyone in the priority seating area who doesn’t need it gives it up for someone who does (pregnant women etc). Can you people truly not see the distinction between priority seating and normal seats, and showing humanity and compassion between being assholes?
    Would you stay seated in the priority seating area while an old lady stood? Would it make a difference if she was really grumpy and entitled? What if it was a lady on crutches? Would her attitude make a difference? What if it was a man on crutches? Would his attitude make a difference?
    Someone said they couldn’t tell if that lady was pregnant or just obese. Might I suggest you get your eyes checked. At that late stage of pregnancy it’s easy to tell at a quick glance.
    Someone else commented on the number of spare seats on the bus in the photo. I assumed that was taken specifically for the article, and not the situation in contention. Are you slamming women just for the fun of it here? Because really, this particular argument is pathetic. No decent human being can justify occupying a seat in the priority seating area if they are able-bodied while making somebody who the priority seating area is actually for, stand. This isn’t even an argument about women, it’s about common sense and decency and basic manners.

  35. That vegan woman’s ridiculous was thrown out of court twice and my country is now a laughing stock because of it. Yes Aussie has plenty of idiots. It has plenty of rude people, too. Which is why I was so pleasantly surprised by the act of chivalry from the sushi shop gentleman yesterday.

  36. Priority seating? You mean “disabled” seating. It’s for wheelchairs, persons with walkers…….nowhere in the international pictograms does it show a “pregnant woman”

    Are pregnant women now considered disabled?

    Offering a seat is good manners, but it isn’t required. The announcements on the bus, subway, and light rail in California say “please offer your seat to seniors or the disabled” it says nowhere that its a law. Now, when a wheelchair comes on, and you’re in that seating section, you need to get up and move…not moving means you’re a first grade a-hole.

    When its a law, the announcements say “California law prohibits smoking, drinking of alcohol…….” or “San Francisco City Code prohibits weapons on all MUNI….”

  37. Here in Australia it’s called “priority seating” and pregnant women are included in the fine print on the sticker underneath the picture, and sometimes in the picture as well. It is a law that able-bodied people must give up their seat in the priority seating area and penalties do apply. Outside of the priority seating area it’s not law, just courtesy. But the article this post is about specifically says priority seating, not standard seating.

  38. I should add that the law states that people must move “on request” so no fines will apply unless you refuse to move when asked by the bus driver/train conductor. Etiquette dictates able-bodied people should shift without being asked, but the law allows for rude/ignorant people and states they must be requested to move instead of thinking for themselves. And yes, pregnant women are absolutely included. So are people with epilepsy.

  39. If I was seated on a bus and an obviously pregnant woman was standing, I would offer her my seat; not because she deserves it but because aI feel it’s the courteous thing to do. I’m not going to lower my moral standards just because other people are jerks. I do my best to be courteous and polite even when others aren’t. At the end of the day you are accountable for your behavior, not theirs.

  40. Most people with epilepsy are men, and most don’t have gran-mal seizures 24 hrs a day. If a man is sitting there does he now have to carry his medical documents “proving” he has epilepsy? Or does he have to wait til women like Lizzy here berate people on Twitter?????

    This is where the left eats itself, “my disability is more of a disability than yours” or “my protected class / sex / gender / age / challenge / is more important than yours”

    What happens when the priority seating is filled with pregnant women, old people, and a wheelchair and more get on who need priority seating? Do they take a regular seat, or do they call the driver / conductor to decide who is “more disabled” than someone else? What is the appeal process? Does a person who does have to move get fined because someone else’s disability get more of a priority over someone elses? Will Lizzy have to carry her pregnancy test on her? Will the man with epilepsy have to carry all his paperwork everytime he rides the bus?

    Would Lizzy agree to this?

    Do these people who MUST have priority seating and its filled wait for the next bus or street car??? Or do what MOST people do and make DO and just sit in a normal seat like everybody else?????????????

    Your country also has women only sections on subways, women only bus stops….and you all wonder why “men wont be chivalrous / or surprised when they are” because women have told them for a few decades now that they are scum, harassers (yet those are the ones you put out for), have the whole world at their fingertips and aren’t worth a damn

    I wouldn’t move for you either………and I wouldn’t sit in priority seating anyway

  41. I think you’re confused, lastmod. Australia does not segregate it’s people. We have no women-only areas. It was considered, years ago, but we didn’t want it.

    I would not expect you or anyone else to give up your seat for me. I’m neither pregnant nor disabled and quite capable of standing when necessary.
    I commute during peak hour and have not ever seen too many people needing priority seating so I don’t know how that would work. It would be up to the conductor/driver to allocate the seats, but in 25 years of commuting I’ve never seen it be necessary. I have seen people give up their seats willingly in standard seating areas when the priority seating is full, but if they were rude and refused to do so I’m not sure how it would all work. I’m glad I live in a nation where enough people have manners that your hypothetical situation doesn’t happen.
    My son has epilepsy. He wears a medic alert bracelet. Why would he carry paperwork with him? He does not use priority seating and he would willingly give up his standard non-priority seat to a pregnant woman or anyone else in greater need than him because he is a nice person who is considerate of others just as CLR is, above.

    I do understand men’s hesitancy to help women – a teenager made false accusations against a good Samaritan who had spent two hours of his time helping her with her car (it made national news, you may even be familiar with the case) but this is so rare. I think statistically, men’s fears here are mostly unfounded.

  42. I do understand men’s hesitancy to help women – a teenager made false accusations against a good Samaritan who had spent two hours of his time helping her with her car (it made national news, you may even be familiar with the case) but this is so rare. I think statistically, men’s fears here are mostly unfounded.

    Do you understand statistics Karen?

    A chance of false accusal is one out of two logic. Either you are accused or you are not .. 1/2 = .5 x 100(%) = 50%.

    Statistically that’s a 50-50 chance. Is 50% insignificant?

    The probability for such an accusal of man is much lower if he avoids all possible good deeds for th wimminz to zero. Because 50-50 is not good odds. And it’s game of chance .. not skill.

    The outlook for th wimmimz is starting to come into view for some of them. And it scares’em that we men don’t make decisions out fear .. but rather rational logic.

    You wimminz have trained these men good.

  43. I think I must understand statistics better than you, honeycomb. Are you trying to claim that there is a 50% chance a man who interacts with a woman is going to get falsely accused? A study done this year in America found that only 2% of men had ever been accused of sexual harassment or assault – so accusations, either true or false, are very rare. How does that stack up to a 50% chance? According to the FBI only 2% of all sexual assault charges are false – which is the same percentage as all other felonies. Obviously it’s going to be very unpleasant for that unlucky man who does get falsely accused, but there’s a 98% chance a man isn’t going to be. And when you consider widely-accepted estimates that only 40% of sexual assault and rape crimes are reported to Police, there are obviously far more rapists and sexual predators running free than there are innocent men accused of a crime they did not commit.
    How can you possibly claim that men are making decisions out of rational logic and not out of fear?

  44. I think I must understand statistics better than you, honeycomb.

    And .. you’d be wrong. Review the definitions of chance and probability.

    False accusations are the norm. Not the exception.

    How can you possibly claim that men are making decisions out of rational logic and not out of fear?

    Once again .. you are not a man with different sex organs. Our minds work differently too.

    This is logic by fear .. ALL GUNS BAD .. no one can have guns .. that’s logic by fear.

    This logic by rational thought .. ALL GUNS are TOOLS .. tools can be used by bad people to harm others .. therefore a good guy with a tool is necessary.

    Men don’t say .. ALL WIMMIMZ are BAD .. men know what red flags to look for.

    In the absence of studied observations of a womminz .. men go to fail-safe (i.e. avoidance).

    You see we aren’t armed with the gun wimminz carry. We don’t have the laws tilted in our direction. The governments don’t care it’s a false accusation. We don’t have the media in our pocket.

    No .. those “tools” are for wimmimz only. The only “tool” I have is avoidance. And even that doesn’t work 100% of the time.

    I only interact wimminz I know through studied observation (e.g. family .. co-workers .. etc). I’m very good at reading body language and people.

    That’s not fear .. but rational choice.

  45. Honeycomb, I’m trying to be as gracious as possible here, but you are making that difficult. Your web browser has a search feature. Use it. I’m not going to hold your hand.

    I tell my children that if you are going to claim someone is wrong…

    “Do you understand statistics Karen?”

    …you better be sure you are right (and be prepared to admit when you are wrong). When Bayes and Venn disagree with you, maybe you should be a little less dogmatic and absolute with your claims. The statistical terms are often used interchangeably, especially when the context makes the meaning perfectly clear.

  46. The statistical terms are often used interchangeably, especially when the context makes the meaning perfectly clear.

    Derek .. you’re makin’ a mockery of the english language .. statistically speaking.

    Math terms mean one thing. Stop being a womminz. Facts matter .. not feelings .. you should’ve left those at home.

  47. A chance of false accusal is one out of two logic. Either you are accused or you are not .. 1/2 = .5 x 100(%) = 50%.

    Statistically that’s a 50-50 chance. Is 50% insignificant?

    The probability for such an accusal of man is much lower if he avoids all possible good deeds for th wimminz to zero. Because 50-50 is not good odds. And it’s game of chance .. not skill.

    Whelp .. I’ll correct myself. I did say “odds”.

    My bad .. it was labeled with chance. The correct term was “chances”.

    Group hug .. NOT!

    On three break.

  48. “you’re makin’ a mockery of the english language”

    In fact, language usage is not black and white. There are nuances and variations to the meanings of words and their practical application. Legalistic persons cannot bear context or the weight of critical thinking.

    “Stop being a womminz.”

    It is childish thinking and poor argument (i.e. red-herring) to obsess over preferred meanings and usages of words while completely ignoring what people intended to communicate. In point of fact, the reason I’m bringing this up at all is not to be pedantic, but to point out that you lost the argument when, instead of refuting the points, you engaged in fallacious reasoning.

    “Facts matter .. not feelings”

    You want facts? Various mathematicians disagree with you. Various dictionaries disagree with you. Various websites disagree with you. The field of linguistics disagrees with you.

  49. The FBI has been trusted in this country since the 1960’s. They make up statistics for anything and everything. Also different states in the USA have different policies of what is reported to the federal government concerning “sexual assault, sexual harassment…..and sexual violence…..and that term right there….here in California……you ask a woman on a date, she doesn’t like that YOU asked her…….reports to the police that that you are harassing her. That is counted as “harassment” and it’s on the man’s record. If it is in a work environment at one of the USA’s larger multi-national companies, it doesn’t go to the police…it goes straight to HR. Worse than the police. Seen it ruin plenty of careers in my 15 years at IBM. The accused get no hearing. There is zero investigation. It’s #believeallwomen

    Police departments wanting federal money also fudge statistics to fall within the lines for funding……..meeting the metrics. They will throw a man in jail because he is unemployed and behind on his child support in California but let convicted felons out because there is no room in the local jail. Gotta make room for the guy who is behind on child support…….he’s a huge danger!

    Women, talk shows, blogs, magazines, special reports spend and waste a ton of time talking about the “dating and marriage crisis in the USA” and never question men as to why this is happening. The rare man or woman that gives a truthful answer is belittled as “bitter” and “Ughhh…he’s ugly, so he doesn’t matter” and “he’s a closet abuser” and “that woman doesn’t know the facts”

    As for manners………the most polite people on the planet are Canadians. Californians are rude beyond belief and its frankly because of people in the OP like Lizzy. Entitled, smug and out to shame anyone (men) the second she feels wronged.

  50. Ugh….the FBI has NOT been trusted is what my first sentence should say. Apologies. Will never give that agency an ounce of credit

  51. You want facts? Various mathematicians disagree with you. Various dictionaries disagree with you. Various websites disagree with you. The field of linguistics disagrees with you.

    Yes (re: facts) .. not opinions mask-cure-raiding as facts.

    Various websites disagree with you.

    Ah yes .. we need more group think (i.e. the absence of leadership).

    It’s funny really .. it’s on the interwebz .. it must be true!

  52. TRIGGER ALERT ..

    Californians are rude beyond belief and its frankly because of people in the OP like Lizzy. Entitled, smug and out to shame anyone (men) the second she feels wronged.

    I know .. years ago .. you could drive on the Ca roads and be treated like you were in the South.

    It usually happened after highway shooting.

    Ah the ebb and flow of rude behavior .. some folks need a reminder .. others have to experience it.

    Having seen both .. before and after effects of such an event .. it was always better afterwards .. heh.

  53. Hence why I don’t drive out here. I have a scooter…….and I use it for local errands, and there are no Mods out here to jaunt with………..I use the bus a lot in my city. We do have the “clipper card” in the Bay Area with enables you to use all public transit in the Bay Area (Santa Rosa, the Marin Train, Alameda Country, San Francisco, San Jose…et al). I am proof that you CAN do without a car in California. You can.

    The freeways are clogged all day. City roads are clogged all day……..and the California mentality is “oh yes…public transportation is such a good thing!!!!” (virtue signaling) but *they* don’t use it. It’s a good idea for *someone else* to use it (think 99% of Hollywood actors, 99% of SIlicon Valley types…and women who think they are men by owning a HUGE SUV)

    There are nice, friendly Californians……met plenty in my 25 years of living in my adoptive state. The Bay Area is very smug (an end result of progressive liberalism does this…..makes people entitled, ruder, meaner, nastier and badder….like a bad cocaine habit). I am a native New Yorker, and we’re not known for our polite demeanor……….but the Bay Area in 2019 makes New Yorkers seem a bit mild.

    I no longer offer my seat to women. I did when I was younger….manners…..but women began to think I was trying to “play” on them and “get their number, or trying to hit on them”. I think the last time was when I was living in SF….I offered my seat to a woman my age (mid twenties at the time). She took the seat and said “Oh, this doesn’t mean I have to talk to you, give you my phone number, and chat with you.” As she put her shades on.

    I am sure if I looked like Brad Pitt she would not have said that

    After that, I quit offering my seat because frankly no one else was offering seats and was looking like a real heel for doing so.

  54. Dear Peeps:

    There are nice, friendly Californians……met plenty in my 25 years of living in my adoptive state. The Bay Area is very smug (an end result of progressive liberalism does this…..makes people entitled, ruder, meaner, nastier and badder….like a bad cocaine habit). I am a native New Yorker, and we’re not known for our polite demeanor……….but the Bay Area in 2019 makes New Yorkers seem a bit mild.

    From my perspective, as a guy who lived in British Columbia for a long time, both New Yorkers and Californians tend to be incredibly nice, pleasant people. Human quality changes on the I-5 corridor in the states, someplace around Roseburg, Oregon, and people stay nice past the Mexican border.

    I no longer offer my seat to women. I did when I was younger….manners…..but women began to think I was trying to “play” on them and “get their number, or trying to hit on them”. I think the last time was when I was living in SF….I offered my seat to a woman my age (mid twenties at the time). She took the seat and said “Oh, this doesn’t mean I have to talk to you, give you my phone number, and chat with you.” As she put her shades on.

    She’d have liked it if you had looked up from your seat, cocked an eyebrow, and said “I’ll let you sit for your phone number…”

    She’d have also liked it if, after simpishly giving her your seat, you laughed at her response and mentioned the other bitches you were currently fucking.

    I think I must understand statistics better than you, honeycomb. Are you trying to claim that there is a 50% chance a man who interacts with a woman is going to get falsely accused? A study done this year in America found that only 2% of men had ever been accused of sexual harassment or assault – so accusations, either true or false, are very rare. How does that stack up to a 50% chance?

    Wimminz are encouraged to believe that ten out of six wimminz are raped in college, and that 99% of men are violent wimminz-beaters, so I read a lot of these comments as just parody of that sorta nonsense.

    That shit goes both ways. On this forum, we know for a fact that 99% of all females are filthy skank-ho wimminz.

    I’m reminded of a female, years ago, who was conducting a lone protest outside the family law courts in Seattle. I was flabbergasted, turned my car around, parked, and went to talk to her. She was motivated by how unjustly her son was being treated by the faggots in the fake family courts… of course she didn’t bother to protest before then, because up until her own kid got the shaft, she had never seen anything but benefits from this filthy system.

    Hence the point of this original article. It used to be that the default setting was “female” := “nice lady” … now the default setting is “female” := “skank-ho slut”.

    Sorta like the default settings for men, who are decried to be all rapists, violent wife beaters, deserving of being castrated, etc.

    Sure, exceptions exist. The one female who was holding a lone picket sign outside the family courts.

    If that specific woman was injured and boarding the bus, I’d move so she could sit down.

    If that specific woman was being roughly treated, I’d jump my ass in and help her out.

    If that specific woman was approaching a door, with her arms full of heavy boxes, I’d rush over and open it.

    In short, I’ll treat that one woman the way I treat every old gentleman that I see, in my day-to-day life, because she has earned it.

    The rest of you bitches can hang. No way I am giving any of you an ounce of consideration. You’ve not only never earned good treatment, you’ve actively worked for my hatred and contempt.

  55. Get over the coastal range in California into the heartland of the state……”the san jocquine valley” (Fresno, Bakersfield, Turlock, Modesto) people are genuinely more friendly…..even the gangsters take off their baseball caps when entering a building or a church……

    The mountains……way up in Alpine County….Stanislaus….that area…..sure, people are a bit more genuine. They view anyone with a license plate frame that shows a vehicle that was purchased in the “bay area” a little suspicion….as they should I suppose.

    The Bay Area is downright rude. If you are working in the service industry (bartender, restaurant, 7-11……) you tell a Bay Area person “no” out comes the “why” and now its a ‘political thing’ about rights, standing up, and virtue signalling on how you’ve been mistreated. Lizzy in the OP is prime example of this nonsense……..and of course, since their feelings were “hurt so bad” they deserve an apology, and of course something for free……….

    Never met so many “oppressed” “scarred” and “victimized” upper class white people in my entire life. Most of them tend to be women, and tough hipsters with beards. Evengelical Christians here tend to speak about how they are mistreated here, comparing their plight with how the Jews being exiled into Babylon. Not one Christian has been thrown into a hot furance by Nebacanezzer. Notta one. These folks get indignant when you tell them “no” as well.

    Working class blacks, whites and latins here in California are what is left of any genuine California that existed prior to the 1990’s. I identify with the white working class, but I do accept and know they don’t identify with me. Not a “down with the people” person. The welfare class in California are the dumbest people in the state. The believe every lie smug politicians tell them and while their condition worsens they still vote these dullards back in.

    White women in the Bay Area are probably the most entitled bunch. Everything is rape, oppression, the patriarchy, life matched by what is in Cosmo Magazine this month….claiming to be a “modern, independent woman” but needs federal / state programs to help her every step of the way…………claiming there are “no real men” while forgetting their foul mouth, everything political conversations really turn people off.

    Two doubleplays……”ask us girls out, we don’t bit” and then “men have to leave us alone, we girls are doin’ it for ourselves”

    Comical at my age to watch.

  56. Off topic but “real masculinist christian who is smarter-than-you-because-he’s-some-urban-planner in the failed city called New York” Aaron Renn is removing or ending his “masculinist” blog

    Good riddance.

    He of course has declared it a “victory” on all levels, and is astounded at the changed lives, and hundreds of thousands of men worldwide who have been impacted and become “real, bold christian men”

    Knew saps like this at IBM. Okay, the man is articulate. He has a pretty interesting career, and makes an excellent living….probably a cute wife, adorable children with nice clothing and straight teeth……well behaved I am sure in public

    Why is closing “this amazing work” that he is “so very proud of”?

    Call it a hunch. He had his career threatened, had a promotion passed up, or had something connected to him and his blog that probably put his “career trajectory” in jeopardy. He’s a money and math guy too…….counted the cost, and well, Jesus got the boot.

    You see men……men like this Aaron Renn, accomplished as they are…..better men than you and I am sure…….finest pedigrees from places like Purdue, Rennsselaer Poly, and MIT who claim openly and boldly how christian they are honestly believe they are immune to the culture around them. We who live in the real world know different.

    They all think and honestly believe they are doing us proles a service by you know….telling us how “great god is” and how men just need to uplift each other, have a band of brothers……be involved in church and the usual “I was a simp but then I became this amazing man, and I….I mean jesus then brought me this virginal hot woman out of nowhere, I got this…I mean, jesus got me this promotion….all glory to him”

    What the christianity does indeed need is more men like Aaron Renn….. and I mean this without a drip of sarcasm. It needs the professional, upscale, and distinguished types of men. Pastors and priests *think* they are this man, but a man like Aaron Renn with his degrees, position and polished accomplishments in the world are indeed a whole world above the pastor who went to Oral Roberts Seminary, or the Salvation Army training college………..and has an AA in Divinity, can only think about building programs, numbers, when his next vacation is and views his worthless degree as comparable to places like Aaron Renn went to.

    What it doesn’t need in a man like Aaron Renn is telling us proles to be “bold in christ alone” and all the trimmings, glad-handling about all the changed lives, and the countless “thank yous” he gets “everyday” from men everywhere……..it sounds like a “Dear Penthouse Forum” opening you know….”I too was a simp, but then after reading your amazing newsletter I became this mighty man of god, my wife calls me lord, my church family is now real because of your newsletter……”

    That aside, I was never on his level and never will be financially, education, skills, or career, or looks, or wife, or in popularity. I also know I never will.

    I DO know however how this crowd behaves like. The Aaron Renns’ of the world. I work with them daily. They rent in the office tower I manage. I dealt with this jet-set crew when I was IBM. I watched them behave at the exclusive nightclub I worked in when I was a bartender in San Francisco. I spoke with them when I was on the Board of Trustees at my undergrad.

    This sudden pull of his newsletter…..and ALL the archives are being taken down as well very soon…….call it a good hunch, but he had his career and livelihood put in jeopardy……and we all know……..every guy in the man-o-sphere is a “bolder than you christian” and better at it too until the topic of “being a provider” comes up.

    You see, everyone is this amazing, bold, jesus or nothing type of man until the money spigot could be stopped. In the church we see this. In politics. In day to day living. Aaron Renn is no different here…….I am sure he being so bold for jesus and fighting for men everywhere to be real men………….suddenly got a change of tune when this was going to happen……

    Men like Aaron Renn and a good majority of the ‘sphere when suddenly have their livlihoods put into question, well….it’s now “jesus would understand” discussions with the wife, because we all know as men, being a good christian means having a good career. Period.

    For the rest of us proles? We’ll be talked down to be bold for jesus, and lay it all down for him….but as usual……men like Aaron Renn are the exception because they are “important” for society and being a provider is more important than following christ. A good example of how strong their faith is right there. Don’t worry about Aaron Renn…….he’ll get forgiveness by the sphere of “doin what he had to do to be there to be a good provider for his family”

    You, me, and the rest of us chumps who are not like him…….damn us to hell for not being like jesus.

    High school all over again

  57. *** This sudden pull of his newsletter…..and ALL the archives are being taken down as well very soon…….call it a good hunch, but he had his career and livelihood put in jeopardy……and we all know……..every guy in the man-o-sphere is a “bolder than you christian” and better at it too until the topic of “being a provider” comes up.

    *** Call it a hunch. He had his career threatened, had a promotion passed up, or had something connected to him and his blog that probably put his “career trajectory” in jeopardy.

    Jason – hunches are the stock in trade boys and girls in junior high.

    Read for yourself why Aaron is pulling down his sideline blog. Your scoffing attitude and mocking tone (“GOOD RIDDANCE”) betray your grievances with Christianity and the manosphere at large. But why slander this man. You are trying to tear down another man trying to do good work, much the same way as our host has pointed out about Dalrock’s echo chamber.

    *** Knew saps like this at IBM… They all think and honestly believe they are doing us proles a service by you know telling us how “great god is” and how men just need to uplift each other…

    Nothing Aaron wrote came across in the way you characterize it. What gives man? If nothing he wrote was profitable to you, so be it, or if he is not your cup of tea, cool. Then again, what do i know… you keep doing you bro.

  58. Jason,
    You are guessing? Did you get his email about it? If not, I don’t want to share something he wants to keep private, so I will keep this general.
    What if your hunch is incorrect? I’m not condemning you for making a negative hunch, or else I’d need to stone myself first. But I am asking for the sake of your own edification. What if he is going through something and a monthly letter of that length and depth isn’t a good decision? And it’s not because of a fear of loss of money or respectability?
    OTOH, if you were right, isn’t it better to pray for his strength and open eyes? John Mark wasn’t up to being with Paul, and latter he was. Do you think Paul had a bad attitude about him?
    Anyhow, I am also writing because after reading your comments for more than a year, I finally got clarity about where you are coming from. Please correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like you were mad about men giving out of their plenty for and to Jesus, while you were giving all that you had, but those men were getting the friends and respect that your sacrifice deserved? Or maybe better, you knew Jesus and the Father in a way “we” don’t and you wanted them/us to have the same joy as you, and a similar level of faith and hard work?
    If so, I like your vision, and would like to see me and others give all we have for Christ, and to be on close identification and fellowship with others who are doing the same. I think part of that lack is why church is called a social club. We talk about sports and smile alot while the successful people become elders.

  59. No, I didn’t get a personal email from him. Nor would I expect one.

    Those who did, well I am sure it was the usual “my family comes first….the bible says it’s okay for me to do this” which actually is a true statement. Him being married makes him “exempt” from christian service I guess. I also understand priorities in life and how those can change.

    I found his newsletter well written. Very well written. I disagreed with the application of it on many areas…….”just do this and this as a man and you will be a leader / father / husband / superior provider” and he assumes that all men have the “equality” in looks, intelligence, inheirited wealth, potential, skills, attributes…….and of course physical looks. Perhaps that is what I disliked the most about it. I never did communicate with him, I would be wasting his time. I DO know men like this, and have worked / dealt with them personally over the decades………unless you are equal to him in intelligence, stature, manhood, intelligence and everything else I mentioned….he could care less about your situation.

    Everything is calculated with men like this. Risk. Money. time. Effort. Payoff. Everything. If the bottom line wasn’t paying for itself with chumps like me to support it. Closed. You don’t deserve his insight if you will not pay for it in kind with cost to produce or time he takes to maintain. He may not be “greedy” looking for a profit….no……..but he and men like him has a very linear mindset on these things. “Is it breaking even with my time?”

    That could have played a role…..but in his position with New Urbanist. As a speaker, conultant. His stances. His open newsletter. If his personal financial bottom line was going to be effected by corporate polices in his career because of these stances. It would be dropped instantly. I could buy 100% if he said “My kid(s) need me, I want to take a break…….my wife…….but fear not men, I will return and continue this at a future date.”

    No. He closed the project, and is removing ALL archives by tomorrow. Gave the usual farewell and self-promoting stuff about how successful it was.

    He was told “take it down” by someone or “it could / may / will affect your career”

    Men like this are compliant. They believe if you just play by the rules you will be rewarded and people will leave you alone. That probably was true a mere ten to fifteen years ago in his position. No longer. Men on the lower rungs of the societal totem pole have known for years that this isn’t true for them (working class / poor class). Aaron Renn will be hailed as brilliant and inspirational for “real christian men” all over the world despite backing down.

    As for my works in jesus when I was a christian? They meant nothing. Were nothing, and anybody could have done what I did. The real christian men of merit are ones who have an excellent career, are smart, are good looking, are endeared, are fathers, and know better than the rest of us……..

    They can have it. They know god loves them more then the rest of us, they play a good show about brotherhood but none live it……but it doesn’t matter. To be a real christian man who have to marry the NAWALT and have every woman in church wishing she was your wife…..I am sure somewhere in the bible one of those tools could find a verse justifying this

  60. And as for my christian walk? I suppose you are right, or have the closest take on it than anybody else ever had. If I tried to explain it you still wouldn’t get it…….christianity is high school redux. I had a horrid experience at boys prep / boarding school 9-12th grade. Now, I wouldn’t wish high school on anyone…….it’s such a “magical” time in your life right?

    I quickly found church to be the same way. At first, I was an adult……..and said “look, you were a kid…..you’re an adult now, you can handle this”

    I couldn’t. In fact, I don’t think most men can….that’s why they don’t freaking come and not because “christianity is hard” but for the fact that they have better things to do than compare penis sizes in a bible study, and who is “more holy” than someone else, more learned, and who is pegged as a leader….who f*cked stacy in high school…..how many yeards did Eli Manning throw in such and such game………stupid activities and always………….ALWAYS………you’re a man who isn’t married: you must be a simp, chump, not alpha, gay…because women just want a man who loves jesus more than anything”

    This reply could be a book in itself. I had no problem with believing…….and actually doing……but jesus gets the boot now too. I was struck down for sinful behavior. No one else was.

  61. Renn refers to men like myself as “low status readers” and he has “few” or “none” of them and really has little to say about them. Hope he remembers that when he comes very early to his office, let’s say 5am and the heat isn’t working. He expects the “low status property manager” to get on it immediately because he is paying “hard earned money” for this space, and will quote the lease agreement over the phone. He will firmly and “manly” exude his “high status” on him……all while talking about his “deep christian faith” to these same men. He will expect the “low status” maintenance worker to come to work three hours early…….leaving his family, and making arrangements with the neighbors, to help get his kids to school.

    In the year 1966……a man like Renn would “make do” until people got to work. The top coat would have stayed on, he would have made a joke about it. He would have grabbed a hot coffee and smirked. He would have been serious with the staff when they came to work……and would expect it fixed…..but you know…..he’s important. You’re not. This is another reflection of his christian faith, low status men in the faith “serve” him so he can be important to “the real men in the faith”

    Renn isn’t alone in this thinking. It’s very common. read any of the blogs in the christian man-o-sphere……

  62. I couldn’t. In fact, I don’t think most men can….that’s why they don’t freaking come and not because “christianity is hard” but for the fact that they have better things to do than compare penis sizes in a bible study, and who is “more holy” than someone else, more learned, and who is pegged as a leader….who f*cked stacy in high school…..how many yeards did Eli Manning throw in such and such game………stupid activities and always………….ALWAYS………you’re a man who isn’t married: you must be a simp, chump, not alpha, gay…because women just want a man who loves jesus more than anything”

    The men who talk that way speak from a position of incredible insecurity, and they know it, even if you don’t. The loudest one of these losers has a wife who sucks strange cock on the reg. Chad has laid miles of pipe in their woman’s holes. Don’t ever forget that, either.

  63. lastmod – You hate the very same thing feminists hate – arrogant men. Arrogance is not a Christ-like quality; humility is. The men you are describing in whatever church you attended, and the man who’s blog you are talking about, wouldn’t know humility if it leaped up and bit them on the bum. This is NOT Christianity!! It might be “churchianity” but it’s not what Jesus taught. Sounds to me like you and feminists are actually fighting the same fight.

  64. No…you feminists actually love these arrogant men. You get naked with them. lick their balls, you “tee-hee” at their robust masculinity and then pin the blame on men like me “You men are toxic!” You friendzone men like me, demand we be something new-age….and yet demand and expect traditional behavior (he has to make more money then you, be *smarter* than you, and of course be well above average in the looks department…….and in the bedroom department)

    Feminists hate men like me…..but crave, bed and make children with the crustiest turds thinking that “they’ll” be the one to change him.

    It’s a mental disorder, and I have no love, kinship or even alliance with them. I live in California…..so I know what I am talking about here. Feminists are the most shrill, angry, belittling, hateful, spiteful people I have ever come across. Everything is racist, sexist, homophobic………and they have more loyalty to “progressive / labor / democratic” parties than the women and men they claim to stand up for.

  65. as for the christian faith….the future of it is in asia, africa and probably the middle east. two years ago in Pakistan (evidently our ‘best friend’ in the middle east……W Bush said so….lol) there was a newsvideo by IBC (Indian Broadcasting Corp) showing ten men in a small city…..all in the public square……..they were told to renounce their faith in Jesus Christ or they would be beaten and stoned to death. They refused.

    Guess what? They were beaten and stoned to death. What did the average middle of the road american church have to say about this in the USA? Nothing. Instead they got sermons about “not judging” and “social justice” and other drivel. That video by the IBC was quickly removed.

    These men would die for a profession of christ, while christians in the west are more concerned about enough women on the church board, celebrating all the single moms on “fathers day” because every single mom is “so strong and amazing” (guess what, she isn’t…..)

    Put any “real christian man” from the man-o-sphere in that situation. “Renounce your faith or die”
    All of them would renounce it because “their wife, their children, Jesus would understand”

    These men at least can stand for something. Here in the west, women screaming profanity and wearing a pink pussy hat is “daring” and “bold” and “so defiant” and “standing up for rights”

    If I could at least see men walking a bold stance for their faith in the USA………I could probably “grow” into something better, or at least strive. Wishful thinking because no man has that kind of faith in the USA or the west.

  66. I’m a feminist and I can absolutely assure you that women like me can’t stand arrogant men. Yes, I like traditionalism in my man. I like manners and chivalry. A hard, gruff exterior with a marshmallow inside is perfect. I’ve been married to my husband for 27 years. I like his looks, but he’s not classically handsome. He rides a Harley, has shoulder-length curly hair, a big bushy beard and tattoos. He’s huge, 6 foot 3, weighs 130kg, solid and strong. He used to be a professional rugby player but now only plays for fun. He’s a gentleman – he opens doors for me and smacks my tush as I walk through. He always drives. He manages our money, even though I now earn more than he does. He picks me up and throws me over his shoulder and carts me off to bed and tucks me in. He calls me “little girl” and treats me like a princess. There isn’t an arrogant bone in his body, he’s a gentleman to the core. He certainly pleases me in bed but he’s my one and only so I have nothing to compare him to. I could not find a better man if I tried. I’m also certain he would die for me, our son and his faith, if called to do so. Even better, he would never, ever remain sitting on a bus if a pregnant woman was standing, no matter where abouts on the bus he was.

  67. Also lastmod from what I’ve seen of the “manosphere” there is nothing and nobody in there to aspire to. The men in that group are why some feminists hate men. Unfortunately, the arrogant men in the manosphere give all men a bad name.

  68. “I’m a feminist [..] I’ve been married to my husband for 27 years”

    A feminist with a traditional marriage? I can believe that. Those feminists who embrace traditional marriage are indistinguishable from anti-feminists who embrace traditional marriage. Your marriage is like my parents/grandparents, lastmod’s parents/grandparents, my own marriage, or any marriage in an Anabaptist church. You may be a self-proclaimed feminist, but do you personally do any of the things modern feminism promotes?

    1) Have sex—especially with other men—before you marry
    2) Withhold sex as a measure of control
    3) Be unfaithful
    4) Refuse to have children
    5) Use the divorce threat point—to leverage access to children or you—to get what you want.
    6) Support and/or utilize abortion (including birth control pills)

    More to the point, if you are the kind of woman who thinks women and men are intrinsically equal in worth but express this in different roles (from your example, this describes your marriage), then your “feminism” is somewhat analogous to the Christian complementarian view of marriage.

    Do as a I say, not as I do?

    Feminism, when pushed to its logical conclusion, results in failed and/or sterile marriages.

    “from what I’ve seen of the “manosphere” there is nothing and nobody in there to aspire to”

    They are warnings, not examples to emulate. A large number were once married to feminists that did one or more of the things above before ultimately divorcing them. No one aspires to emulate the Brother who married a feminist.

  69. “Arrogance is not a Christ-like quality; humility is.”

    You think Christ was humble? If so, in what way? He was personally humble, in that he didn’t trust to his own strength, but he was supremely confident in his Father. To that end, he flipped tables, condemned his enemies, demanded repentance, and preached exclusivity. Ultimately he was so submissive to his Father’s authority that he went to his own death in order to defy death itself.

    “lastmod – You hate the very same thing feminists hate – arrogant men.”

    Arrogance is not the opposite of humility. Arrogance is an unmerited exaggeration. Stating the truth isn’t arrogance. No matter how much he ticked people off, Jesus couldn’t have been arrogant, because he was never wrong. Disagreeing with feminists isn’t arrogance.

  70. Karen my parents had a great marriage. The only time I ever saw my father shed a tear in his life was at my mothers funeral. My mother didn’t need laws, or virtue signalling, or a movement to know her value. Nor did she believe that a movement like feminism allowed one to behave in a irresponsible manner. Which feminism opened, allowed, pushed and expected not on just women, but men as well. Part of the reason of why we have a rampant STD epidemic, broken homes, neglected children, broken…smashed hearts, a huge cottage industry called “family court” and a shallow view on interpersonal relationships. We have men like myself who cannot fit in with church, family life or society……..forcing the ugly but inevitable hand of MGTOW. I have been alone my whole life and never have had a girlfriend. I am wither too nice, too this, too that………and you can say “well, that’s your own fault…..” and I’ll accept my part of the blame. I was friendly. I was polite. I saved myself for a future wife. If had done the opposite, and had been arrogant, snide and even cruel……I know I would have had a better chance at finding a wife. Now? The women my age are single moms who want a man to fix everything in their life but she doesn’t have to change a thing about her…..or they are really young, and I would be run outta town for that kind of behavior. I also was born quite ugly……so that never helped me. You women will say that looks don’t matter, and you’re lying right there.

    Do you “believe all women” everytime the camera comes up on one making a high profile allegation on a man? Do you believe Helen Hunt when she states at womens conferences that “its impossible for women to lie”. No one in the movement has ever said “Umm, Helen…….wait a minute…”

    The arrogance in the man-o-sphere drives more men away, not because they are enlightened or more holy but many just deal with loneliness, superiors at work telling them what to do all day, a media that tells them they are toxic all day, TV, film……..”women good. Men bad” for the past 25 years……….

    The Christian faith now welcomes everyone, and is very concerned about not offended everyone……but for some sick reason, blames the men like me………men who had zero influence on the state of the church today. Many men don’t know what to do, so they stay home……..and many fall into very unhealthy ways socially and physically.

    Myself? I make sure I do the best I can, but I am not needed in church. I dealt with feminist know-it-alls there, waving the finger, hand on the hip……usually fat. The married men there all talk “traditionalism” but don’t dare stand up to anyone. All talk.

    Feminism defined what men have to be, but like women……….never believe what they say….watch what they do 🙂

  71. “but for some sick reason, blames the men like me”

    Isn’t that human nature? Blame the one that is most unlike you, the one that is different, the one that will make you feel the least responsibility.

    Masculinity, authority, leadership, and the like have at their core taking responsibility. With masculinity, men naturally take responsibility for others. We absolutely respect the right of a man to wife up a whore and take responsibility for her. Women never do this for a man. They try to change him into their image, but they don’t take responsibility for him: at the first sign of trouble, it’s off to divorce court. Similarly, men give up their seat for women, but it is never the other way around.

    The key is that men don’t have to take responsibility, but choose it. Those who don’t choose are chumps. Feminists make chumps of men by telling them what they must take responsibility for, rather than having them choose for themselves.

    Men like Jason are opting out because the deal is a bad one, while Karen’s husband still gets something out of the arrangement. I’d be willing to bet that Karen’s husband didn’t sacrifice his ability to choose his responsibility when he married, because if he had, his marriage likely wouldn’t have lasted 27 years. When he picks up his wife and hauls her to the bedroom, he’s doing exactly what feminists say a man shouldn’t do.

  72. Sadly…on some levels….I had no choice to opt out Derek….and I know many men….even the non-christian ones would tell me “well, you made a choice / made choices……that’s not our problem. It’s yours”

    And they are correct. I admit fully my past did limit my options. I have never skirted or shirked my role in this. I fully understand and agree that when I did get cleaned up, and did start putting my life back together……the options were much more limited on my end. I could not demand or expect at the age of 35 a 19 year old girl from a “good christian family” nor could I expect or demand a “hot mid-twenty-something” unless I had the checkbook of looks, attitude and career to “back it up”

    What I accepted at that time????? She could be a single mom, who in her own life came to the conclusion of “Umm…..yeah, I was a bad girl….made some serious mistakes….but I do know now that I just want a hard working guy who will not just want me, but my kid(s) and I too am ready to change, be led, be a helper……..and a friend.” I also accepted that she didn’t have to be perfect looking, but still someone who did care a bit about her appearance at her appropriate age.

    Like high school, college, and grad school………….I still wasn’t “good” enough for these women. The man-o-sphere loves to tell us about women hittin’ the wall at 29 or whatever….and of course their own wife is hot as she was at 20……but no man looks like he did when he was 25 either. None. They will then tell me “women don’t care about looks, they only want confidence, a guy going places in the world, leadership, style, being a good provider, loves-jesus-more-than-anything, having a rock solid frame, excellent and perfect game, they want a man who is in charge, they want a man who is tall, who has this, who has that……no, no, no……no looks at all……women are attracted only to confidence…..”

    A recent Princeton study asked women in the undergrad and grad programs what does “confidence” mean to them. 500 women asked…….500 different answers, and many them focusing on looks…….so womens’ own definition of this loaded word shift streams faster than a trout in heat and doesn’t mean to women and has a totally different meaning to men. It’s a word to cover up any vanity by men or women. It’s an evil word in the dating world if you are a man who by genetics was giving by god the “gift of being ugly” (Oh, he’s teaching you a lesson!!!)

    Anyway…….Derek and company…….it was a forced hand. I played badly the first round, and the second dealing I was given a two of clubs, a jack of diamonds, a seven of hearts, a nine of spades and a three of hearts……….I was then told to “play this hand” and place all your bets on it….you’re a chump and not real man if you don’t / and you’re not trusting jesus……….so I played….and then told I was a “fool” for expecting to win.

    So, yeah…….what can one do at this point? Go MGTOW? Hate on women? Curse god??? In the end the only thing this vast swath of men CAN do is to: focus on career, whatever that job is. Find the he likes and hobbies and excel at them for his own sake. Stay in the best shape he possibly can. It doesn’t mean hitting the gym and looksmaxxing…..it means just for his own well being. Stay away from church unless you want to be depressed, and understanding the boat left without you and stewing about it won’t make a damn thing better…..neither will changing yourself. Women and men hate men like me, and no matter what you do to better yourself….they will tear you down. Leave them f*ck all alone

  73. “He picks me up and throws me over his shoulder and carts me off to bed and tucks me in.”

    WHAT!? Who brags that her husband carts her off to the bedroom and tucks her in? The fact that he isn’t carting her off to the room to joyfully ravish her is a big red flag (see point #2 from my list).

    The definition of “ravish” is really, really interesting: to seize and carry her away, have sex with her, transporting her to joy, delight, and rapture. This describes a super idealized transcendent sexual experience. It also describes rape if it is not consensual. It’s very, very interesting how Karen describes her marriage with every aspect of this sensual, passionate, violent act of a man taking his wife…. except for the sex.

    In America feminists are literally and actually trying to pass rules that would effectively force a husband to get explicit, preferably written, consent for every sexual act with his wife. The idea of a man ravishing his wife, something that real spouses are actually allowed to do, would be legally defined as always rape. By contrast, if Karen really has a relationship where her husband can forcibly ravish her at will and she loves every minute of it, then she has a very, very happy husband. That’s no feminist wife. But if all he gets is the right to tuck her in? I don’t envy him for a second.

  74. Yes I am a feminist. The definition of feminism according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary (and which I identify with) is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities.
    Someone listed 6 points above. I will address them here.
    1) Have sex—especially with other men—before you marry
    No, I did no do this. I’m a Christian, and that behaviour is sin, not feminism. But because feminism is about choices, feminism promotes the ability of women to CHOOSE to have sex with multiple men, if that is what they want to do. After all, why should men have all the fun?

    2) Withhold sex as a measure of control
    No I do not do this either. I like sex. Why should I give it up? I’m not even sure how this one fits in with feminism. Why would anybody intentionally deny themselves of one of the great pleasures of life?
    To answer another query, he ravishes me plenty 😉 He carts me off to bed and tucks me in when I’m tired, usually when I’ve been burning the candle at both ends for too long and need a nap. When I married him, my body became his and his body became mine. If he wants sex, we have it. If I want sex, we have it. Are you serious when you claim American feminists are trying to force written consent for every sex act including inside marriage? What a way to kill the passion! What kind of weirdos does America harbour?!?!?!?

    3) Be unfaithful
    Most definitely not!! Not sure how that ties in with feminism, either. It’s disgusting behaviour.

    4) Refuse to have children
    We have a son.

    5) Use the divorce threat point—to leverage access to children or you—to get what you want.
    No. I’m pretty sure our family court system here in Aussie is very different to yours in America. It’s not leveraged to the women, I don’t think.

    6) Support and/or utilize abortion (including birth control pills)
    I have never had an abortion. I can see how this ties in with feminism – bodily autonomy and all that – but it’s not a choice I would personally make. I have used birth control in the past. Now I’m too old to need it.

    “You think Christ was humble? If so, in what way?” – Yes Jesus washed His disciples feet. He was the absolute example of humility.

    “Arrogance is not the opposite of humility.” In my thesaurus, it’s one of 119 antonyms for arrogance so yes, it can be, depending on the context.

    “Stating the truth isn’t arrogance.” Stating the truth in an arrogant way is arrogance. Stating the truth in a kind, loving way, or even a matter-of-fact way, is not arrogance.

    “No matter how much he ticked people off, Jesus couldn’t have been arrogant, because he was never wrong.” You’re right, Jesus was never wrong, nor was He arrogant. But the two don’t necessarily go hand-in-hand. Jesus was not arrogant because He was humble, in complete subjection to His Father. He was never wrong because everything He did was in the will of His Father.

    “Disagreeing with feminists isn’t arrogance.” It can be, if it’s done in an arrogant way. Feminists (or anyone else) can be disagreed with in a non-arrogant way.

    You are right lastmod, women care about looks. Of course they do! Just like men do! But it’s not the most important thing. If a man is the sexiest on earth but he’s an asshole, I don’t want a bar of him. If he’s the ugliest man on the planet but he’s kind, a gentleman, makes me laugh, is easy to talk to, is fun to be with…. I could go for that, definitely. So looks are important, for sure. But the character of a man is far more important.

    Personally, I think feminism has moved to be something ugly because so many women are angry because they’ve been hurt by men. I’ve always been treated well by men, but in my years as a bar manager in Melbourne I’ve seen so many men, young men especially, treating women badly. Spiking their drinks, forcing themselves onto women who have repeatedly told them to get lost – that sort of thing. I’ve had to call in the bouncers so many times to keep these young women safe. So it’s really no wonder that women have had enough and the angry ones are now fighting back. The tables always turn, it’s just a matter of when. I just hope it all evens out before too much more damage is done.

  75. Welcome Karen.

    Yes I am a feminist.

    Given that both Jason and Derek are active contributors to this blog, I’ve been reticent to intervene. They both seem to get something out of your conversation, though I can’t fathom what that might be. I find you dull as all hell, with the following exception…

    I’ve always been treated well by men, but in my years as a bar manager in Melbourne I’ve seen so many men, young men especially, treating women badly. Spiking their drinks, forcing themselves onto women who have repeatedly told them to get lost – that sort of thing. I’ve had to call in the bouncers so many times to keep these young women safe. So it’s really no wonder that women have had enough and the angry ones are now fighting back.

    Of course! Men are ultimately to blame for wimminz bad behavior! I’m sure none of us in this post code have ever heard that argument, from any wimminz. Totally fresh! So insightful!

    You have made a living encouraging drunkenness. In other words: You’re a fucking degenerate, so your attempt to moralize to the brothers is pretty humorous.

    Regards,

    Boxer

  76. Thank you Boxer for your incredibly insightful judgement of my character and integrity.
    You are right – I did make a living once, serving alcohol. For a very long time, in fact. I rebelled from my Christian upbringing. That’s why I married a professional rugby player. I married the baddest boy I could find and put all my effort into making him happy so I could really annoy my parents by staying with him. They were horrified of course, by my choice of life partner.
    But in recent years I’ve turned back to my faith and no longer work in places of ill-repute. These days I have an incredibly dull job working in an office. I bet that makes me seem even more dull to you, right?

    Ultimately, men refusing to accept the blame for their atrocious behaviour is exactly why we are in the pickle we’re now in. And that started with Adam back in Genesis, didn’t it? When questioned as to why he ate the fruit, instead of manning up and taking responsibility, he blamed Eve. He blamed the woman. Men have been blaming women right from the beginning of time. Men on here defending men’s rights to carry on sitting in priority seating while leaving a pregnant woman to stand (precisely the type of person the priority seating is for) makes it clear that men haven’t changed.

  77. Ultimately, men refusing to accept the blame for their atrocious behaviour is exactly why we are in the pickle we’re now in. And that started with Adam back in Genesis, didn’t it? When questioned as to why he ate the fruit, instead of manning up and taking responsibility, he blamed Eve. He blamed the woman. Men have been blaming women right from the beginning of time. Men on here defending men’s rights to carry on sitting in priority seating while leaving a pregnant woman to stand (precisely the type of person the priority seating is for) makes it clear that men haven’t changed.

    Are you a crazy person?

    Asking for a friend (re: avoiding responsibility).

  78. Alrighty fella’s .. per Karen .. we men are to ownership of our wimmimz!

    Who’s with me? Well, me neither.

  79. .. to TAKE ownership ..

    I blame my thumbs for that error .. my fingers wouldn’t have done that.

  80. I didn’t get her pregnant. Not my problem. Not blaming her for being pregnant, but its not mine and I don’t owe a woman something because she did her biological “duty”

    Women were giving birth for thousands of years long before there was priority seating on a bus. In fact, the number one killer of women for most of history was childbirth……those evil male doctors have saved many a woman over the decades and have really improved many techniques in technology to save the lives of women in the process of giving birth. I as a man don’t take credit for this because I am a man……….unlike women, who take credit for something their gender does as if they all somehow were a part of it…………if it was as bad as the feminists say it is you all would be enslaved right now…..since I have all this supposed power and advantages.

    How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb????? The answer is simple. 100. One to actually just do the task, and 99 to make a documentary about it

  81. Ultimately, men refusing to accept the blame for their atrocious behaviour is exactly why we are in the pickle we’re now in. And that started with Adam back in Genesis, didn’t it? When questioned as to why he ate the fruit, instead of manning up and taking responsibility, he blamed Eve. He blamed the woman.

    Actually he blamed God for creating Eve. Probably the best thing is to not blame God for sinful behavior.

  82. Besides let’s not overlook Eve trying to usurp Adam’s God given authority which is why Adam went on the blame game when he screwed up. That’s basically what feminism is….women having authority over men. It’s not about gender equality at all.

  83. You might want to look a bit further into the history of childbirth, lastmod. Male doctors actually killed more women in childbirth in the 20th century than female midwives did – they needed to justify their more expensive fee, so used a lot of experimental techniques and tools that had not been sanitised. Childbirth in the 19th and 20th centuries is one of the very few things that killed more rich women than poor women, due entirely to the attendance of a male doctor with limited training in obstetrics, than a midwife who was cheaper. But doctors (both male and female) have done an incredible lot of good in the world, there is no denying that. The men who discovered antibiotics have probably done more for the health of the world than anyone else.

    I know you insist that you shouldn’t have to give up your seat to a pregnant woman lastmod, and unless you’re in priority seating, it’s your right not to do so. It’s rude to refuse, but it’s rude to do lots of things, and remaining sitting while letting a pregnant woman stand certainly isn’t the rudest thing you could do. Here in Melbourne, it is the law to give up a priority seat on request, but not a standard one. But the funniest thing I ever read regarding seats and pregnant women on buses was a man who yelled at a pregnant woman who was standing on a bus: “How dare you get on here in your condition! If the bus crashes or stops suddenly and you’re standing up, you’re going to be more at risk of falling over because you’re unbalanced and you might hurt your baby!” But get this: he yelled it while sitting down and not offering her his seat! Oh the irony!! So although I respect your right to be rude, please tell me you wouldn’t do this.

  84. Nah feminism is just an excuse for why a woman has to have special treatment for anything or everything. I should have been an architect. I have the skills. I have the proper mindset now. Instead of pushing myself in high school school harder, being a real guy and not giving a rats ass what “guidance counselors / teachers / fellow peers” said about me, I should have pushed myself to the brink of insanity in my drafting and inking (which I was good at back then) and became one. No, I was altruistic and decided to study to become a special ed teacher. I took the easy way out…..and I did end up going into other areas, getting an MS and having an interesting life…..no, it cannot be labeled as a failure.

    Now if I was a woman and back in 1989 and I decided to pursue something else instead of my career dream…….decades later I could blame men, the patriarchy, sexism, mean things boys said to me, and demand the government “do something” to correct my lack of drive to pursue my dream……that’s modern feminism. Excuses. They want quotas, but don’t make it “too hard” and give me outright preferential treatment to get to my goals.

    The nerve of modern women behaving like this. Men have to get better, strive, or push themselves and still may never get to their career goal……while feminism excuses piss poor performance and then these same women still scream and squawk and cluck what’s bothering them at the moment about “men being unfair”

    Because of this, we have bridges and houses collapsing because of improperly licensed female architect’s…but we can all feel good about ourselves for excusing their weaknesses or lack of motivation for in the name of being “equitable”

    The nerve of women acting like this, and shame on them using feminism for this. Excuses of why they can’t make it.

  85. Yes. yes…I am sure all these male doctors did it because of their ingrained sexism, and hatred of women……..

  86. “Besides let’s not overlook Eve trying to usurp Adam’s God given authority which is why Adam went on the blame game when he screwed up.”

    That is true. But shouldn’t those in positions of authority be leading by example and not blaming those they are supposed to be leading? Men have been weak, right from the start. Women have been pushing to be led, right from the start. Women (including feminists – except possibly the angriest ones) want a man who is strong enough to led them well. That’s why confidence (without being arrogant) and strong morals and character, attracts women.

    I wonder what would have happened if, instead of letting Eve lead him into sin, Adam had stood firm and refused to let her eat the fruit? If he’d taken her hand away and reminded her what God had said and insisted that they obey?

  87. You’re a feminist. I’m a man. You don’t respect me at all. So quit this “you respect my right to be rude”
    You don’t have one iota of respect for me.

  88. lastmod, I think I’m misunderstanding you. Why would you think it is better to be an architect than a special ed teacher? Special ed teachers do far more good in the world than architects do. People have been designing and building forever. But historically, those with special needs have been locked away and hidden.

    I don’t know any female architects with dodgy licences who are doing a shoddy job so can’t comment on that, although if bridges are collapsing, wouldn’t that be the responsibility of the engineer overseeing the project?

    The whole point of feminism is about females being given equal opportunity to men. Not preferential treatment, nor being shut out of having the chance to try. But I do know that in many careers, women have had to prove themselves over and over and over before they’re accepted, especially if it’s in a job that is traditionally held by men.

  89. Special ed teachers don’t teach. They do paperwork and enable disabilities and challenges instead of correcting them or teaching to work around or overcome them. They also have to show more loyalty to a teachers union than over the students they teach. After one year of this, I had enough. Went to grad school and thankfully left the field.

    Also its a field full of angry women that hate boys, and hates men “Oh, a man is going to be a teacher???” I heard that frequently, and was assumed to be gay….and the middle aged women teachers thought I was closeted child molester.

    My older brother had Downs Syndrome…………I thought I could make a difference in the world by being a teacher. I would have been a good architect. No, maybe not a Frank Lloyd Wright…….but I def would have been sought after for something I had a passion for. I would have been much happier. Too old now, even if I did go back……intern, extern…..apprentice….I would be well into my sixties before I could land anything in a firm…..and by that point I would be up against “affirmative action quotas” setup, endorsed and backed by “feminists” that have to give women preferential treatment in getting a position or the firm gets SUED

    At least I am not part of the blame today of why California Public Schools are the worst in the USA.

  90. Yes, the engineer signs off on it because if they don’t “he hates women! he didn’t sign off on the project because I am a woman!!!!” The usual running to the TV cameras…….Feminists live in plastic bubbles refusing to believe that they never make a mistake, never make a bad choice, everything that is wrong in their life is because of a man. Maybe its because they are not smart enough to be an engineer (I’m not smart enough to be one). It has nothing to do with some great male conspiracy to keep women down.

  91. “They both seem to get something out of your conversation, though I can’t fathom what that might be. “

    Because she’s misrepresenting herself and fooling herself and (potentially) the Brothers. There is something to illustrate and learn here.

    She’s not personally a feminist. She doesn’t really believe in egalitarian equality, because she has a traditional gender-role-based marriage. Her marriage is completely indistinguishable from an anti-feminist complementarian Christian. Or put another way, her marriage is as feminist as mine is. My guess is that she wants to get social brownie points for calling herself a feminist and saying a few talking points, while reaping all the benefits of not living like a feminist.

    However, outside her marriage and choices she promotes feminist viewpoints (“feminism promotes the ability of women to CHOOSE to have sex with multiple men, if that is what they want to do”). This is hypocrisy: do as I say, not as I do. Both Jason and myself have pointed out variations of this (“never believe what they say….watch what they do”). We are not easily fooled.

    Consider the pro-choice persons who personally hate abortion but think others should have the right to choose. You find murder personally offensive, but it’s cool if other people choose it? It’s a completely stupid argument. It’s equally stupid to push feminist viewpoints onto others while you personally reap all the benefits of not living like a feminist. It’s cognitive dissonance at its finest.

    Feminists never consistently define what they mean by “equal”. They have to pick and choose which attributes, roles, and opportunities they want to be equal and which ones are not equal. It’s completely arbitrary. Full and complete equality leads to many absurdities and contradictions, so she only promotes selective equality. For example, men must stand up on the bus for women, but never will women stand up for men: nothing is equal unless the feminist says it is. Again, it’s cognitive dissonance.

    Feminism can never make logical sense because men and women are not equal. They can share roles and responsibilities, even have similar opportunities and outcomes, but they can never be completely equal because they are different. You can’t square a circle.

    Karen is naive. She doesn’t understand what the application of feminism actually entails, because she doesn’t have to see any of the consequences of it. She can live protected in her ivory tower, unaffected and unaware of the cognitive dissonance.

  92. @Karen

    “Are you serious when you claim American feminists are trying to force written consent for every sex act including inside marriage? What a way to kill the passion! [..] if bridges are collapsing, wouldn’t that be the responsibility of the engineer overseeing the project [..] The whole point of feminism is about females being given equal opportunity to men. [..]”

    You are quite naive. This is probably a good thing, as you still have the opportunity to reduce your ignorance and abandon feminism.

    Yes, the #MeToo movement has moved us past affirmative consent into the realm of explicit and unambiguous consent to sex. This movement is especially notable on college campuses. Since explicit unambiguous consent can only be done in writing, this effectively requires college students to make written contracts before engaging in sexual relations. Other feminists want this to be the standard for all relationships. I wish I was joking.

    If you want to know about the female engineer and the bridge that collapsed, Google is your friend. Someone else might find a link for you.

    Feminism is not about equal opportunity. That’s the lie you tell yourself. You can’t even define what equality means. Feminism is about forcing equal outcomes, not just equal opportunities. Forcing equal outcomes forces the lowest common denominator.

    Consider our schools where absolute test scores are in decline. Girls relative test scores are increased by reducing boys test scores, but in absolute terms everyone loses. Feminism reduces opportunity.

    Or consider men playing on women’s sports teams. Is this equality? It isn’t equality, because men are not women and it is utterly foolish to say they are the same when they are different. You can’t give all women the opportunity to win a sporting event if you allow men to compete against them. You either have to handicap the men (e.g. Ms. Monopoly) or segregate the men from the women. These “fixes” implicitly acknowledge the essential inequality. You can’t actually “fix” the problem of opportunity, because doing so is impossible.

    Or consider the wage gap. You can handicap the men (e.g. force companies to pay women more than they deserve) or force women to work (e.g. eliminate the option to be a stay-at-home-mom). But again, you have not actually fixed the problem of opportunity. Indeed, you have reduced it.

  93. @Karen

    Consider what Jason has said:

    “Special ed teachers don’t teach. They do paperwork and enable disabilities and challenges instead of correcting them or teaching to work around or overcome them. [..] Also its a field full of angry women that hate boys, and hates men”

    He experienced this with his brother with Downs Syndrome. I have 3 children with special needs and I have experienced this as well. My wife is a therapist who works in this field and this is almost her universal experience. In my estimation, maybe 90% of special education teachers, therapists, paraprofessionals, and administrators in this field are incompetent and should not be caregivers of any kind to these kids. Schools will go as far as to fight you in court to prevent having to actually provide services to these kids.

  94. Nowhere did I say men should stand for women on a bus. I said people (both men and women) should stand for PREGNANT WOMEN on the bus, especially if they are sitting in priority seating. Is your reading ability truly that bad or are you being deliberate obtuse? I find it interesting how men (who don’t have a uterus) consider abortion to be murder, yet they don’t consider it important to keep unborn babies safe by allowing their mothers to be seated on the bus. Is that not the height of arrogance?

    Yes I am pro-choice for abortion and pretty much everything else. That is what feminism is – giving women the ability to make their own choices. I would never have one because we struggled with infertility. We would have loved more children, but it wasn’t to be. But having been through that, there is no way I could terminate a pregnancy. Not when we struggled so much.

  95. What makes you think I have a traditional gender roles type marriage? Because I said I like traditionalism in my man and he’s a gentleman who looks after our money and does all the driving and puts me to bed when I need a nap? He also discusses every single decision with me. I have credit cards and spend money as I like; he ensures the bills are all paid. I work full-time and he only works part-time these days so he does most of the cooking and grocery shopping. We have a cleaner. Feminism has given me the right to choose to go to work if I want to, and follow whatever career path I wanted to. Thanks to feminism, my choices have been limited by my desires and abilities, not my gender. Thanks to feminism, if my husband was to die, I am able to retain ownership of our properties and assets. I won’t be reliant on family or a man and I won’t be needing to find a new husband to take care of me.

  96. Nowhere did I say men should stand for women on a bus. I said people (both men and women) should stand for PREGNANT WOMEN on the bus, especially if they are sitting in priority seating.

    You’re in Australia, a feminist shithole, where a full forty percent of pregnant women are skank-ho sluts who are living at the expense of productive family men.

    Thus, any pregnant woman, unaccompanied by a man in public, is reasonably regarded as the dangerous parasite which she is.

    The unwed mother is a cancer on civilization. In a normal society, she’d be treated as such. In your clownworld, she’s free to drain the social services programs to support her booze and junk food habit, while her children suffer a lifetime of abuse. When her bastard daughters and sons become able (’round about age 13) they will start terrorizing law abiding citizens, and rapidly get knocked up themselves, so that this pathetic cycle starts anew.

    This is what you promote, and you are responsible for it.

    Is your reading ability truly that bad or are you being deliberate obtuse?

    To be sure, somebody is. The brothers have asked you questions, and rather than indulge in a normal dialogue, you’ve taken to repeating the same nonsense, over and over and over. Jason and Derek author articles here, and my respect for them is the only reason you’re allowed to keep showing your smelly ass.

    This is your last warning, cunt. The only thing that gets you kicked out of this post code is being boring, so you either start entertaining, or start debating, or you can do what you should have done ten comments ago, and…

  97. I have no experience of special education schools or teachers. If what is said here is true, then that’s desperately sad.

  98. Jason writes:

    Special ed teachers don’t teach. They do paperwork and enable disabilities and challenges instead of correcting them or teaching to work around or overcome them. They also have to show more loyalty to a teachers union than over the students they teach. After one year of this, I had enough. Went to grad school and thankfully left the field.

    Then Derek writes:

    In my estimation, maybe 90% of special education teachers, therapists, paraprofessionals, and administrators in this field are incompetent and should not be caregivers of any kind to these kids. Schools will go as far as to fight you in court to prevent having to actually provide services to these kids.

    Last school year, I was granted an emergency teaching license, and I taught the last few weeks of the precalculus series to high school kids. I also subbed at an elementary school as a favor. My eyes were opened, at that time, to the incredible bureaucracy that goes with the gig.

    A couple of things I ought to say: I wasn’t treated poorly at all in my district. Everyone was very professional, and I admire most of the teachers I worked with (including the female ones) for doing a very difficult job with good humor and decency.

    I do sympathize with what you’re saying, but it’s not as simple as labeling teachers as incompetent or malicious. I went into it all having experience teaching university level courses. I wasn’t at all prepared for the amount of micromanagement that schoolteachers endure. Teaching children is less like teaching college, than it is like acting in the theatre. You have a script, which was legislated into place, and you have precious little room for improvisation.

    That aside, I had a really good time doing it. I’d encourage any young man who wants to teach to go into it aware of the risks. If a student (or his/her mother) wants to talk to you one-on-one, keep the door open. Boys will get angry. This is understandable, because you’re an authority figure. Girls will get crushes on you. This comes with the territory, because you’re basically the D.J.. There are ways to defuse all these scenarios without humiliating the student involved. The job isn’t lucrative, but it pays fairly well without requiring an advanced degree, and no one is nagging at you to publish papers or speak at conferences. A man could easily make a career out of it, and use the free time he has for hobbies and travel.

  99. How is a pregnant woman a dangerous parasite?
    And do you know how many of the 40% of babies born here out of wedlock are born into loving, stable defacto-relationship homes? I’ll tell you – 96% of them. Most of the women aren’t relying on benefits to feed their babies – the father of the baby is providing for them.
    I believe I have answered every single question the “brothers” have asked of me.
    I’m amazed Boxer at how angry you’re getting simply because a woman insists people who refuse to give their seat to a pregnant woman on a bus are assholes (and breaking the law, in some circumstances). It’s like you can’t possibly admit that you’re wrong. Because you know. Ego.

  100. I believe I have answered every single question the “brothers” have asked of me.

    Not so.

    I’m amazed Boxer at how angry you’re getting simply because a woman insists people who refuse to give their seat to a pregnant woman on a bus are assholes (and breaking the law, in some circumstances). It’s like you can’t possibly admit that you’re wrong. Because you know. Ego.

    Are you a crazy person?

    I’ve been on every Continent except Antarctica. It’s never been a law where I’ve gone. And no man is an asshole for not giving up his seat if he choses not to. You’re the asshole for demanding special treatment when you don’t like the dose equality you got.

    It appears your problem is you don’t like men who exercise free choice and thought in their enviornment.

    You wanted equal opportunities to be men .. you got it .. enjoy.

    Instead you demand we provide you special treatment as well. And you got the government to provide you special treatment we know you don’t deserve.

    You’re mentally ill if you think we owe you or her anything.

    How is a pregnant woman a dangerous parasite?

    Is she younger than 65? If yes .. then chances are she’s a loud and proud fembot .. so yes she’s a parasite .. especially an unmarried welfare queen.

    And do you know how many of the 40% of babies born here out of wedlock are born into loving, stable defacto-relationship homes? I’ll tell you – 96% of them. Most of the women aren’t relying on benefits to feed their babies – the father of the baby is providing for them.

    If they are out of wedlock then the chances are she’s 100% on the government tit (heavily) .. and no .. not one single womminz household qualifies as a loving / stable home. Check the criminal stats for that lil nugget.

    I’m convinced you’re mentally ill.

  101. Apology accepted any time 😉
    No I’m not mentally ill.
    Yes, the vast majority of babies that are born out of wedlock here in Australia are still born to two parents living together in the nature of marriage, in the same house, as a committed couple. Defacto relationships of two years or more are treated virtually the same here as marriage.
    Why do you believe your manhood is being attacked if you dare stoop to humanizing a woman?
    Also, please point out which question I did not answer, that was asked of me.

  102. Treating a woman the same as a man IS humanizing according to feminism……men and women are the same right?

    You stand on a bus if you’re pregnant and if someone offers you a seat. Great. If not no man “owes” you one. Nor does running to “daddy” (the government) and demanding laws are paased to make men give you a seat. Feminsm still demands men lay down their lives for women while being belittled for just living.

    Go into the main square in amy city in the world. Look around. Anything with a moving part invented by a feminist? I didnt rhink so. Modern western culture….even in Oz…gave women the luxury to become feminists. These men were like Adam and were “nice” and look how thats turning out.

    You thank feminism for you career / job. Ummmm working in an office and a bar……women worked in jobs like this before feminism.

  103. @Boxer

    “I do sympathize with what you’re saying, but it’s not as simple as labeling teachers as incompetent or malicious. “

    Go back to what I said and you’ll note that I emphasized special education and non-teacher roles (administration, paraprofessionals, etc.). These are significantly worse than regular education teachers for the reason you stated:

    “You have a script, which was legislated into place, and you have precious little room for improvisation. “

    Regular education “works” for the majority of students because most students can be fit into ill-fitting predetermined boxes and still learn. Kids are very resilient. But it’s not ideal. Falling national test scores reflect this, but most of them are going to become functional members of society.

    This just doesn’t work with kids who are, by definition, exceptions. The problems you saw in regular education are probably an order of magnitude worse for special education. States have special schools dedicated for those with deep or multiple disabilities. Many of the worst abuses (including physical and sexual abuse) happen there. Neglect is par for the course. It’s not unusual for children to face potential injury or death under their care.

    This is inflammatory, but true: almost everyone in the special education field thinks the children are hopeless and nothing they do can really make a difference. So they don’t really try. They just take a paycheck and do the minimum. Anyone who is even slightly competent is eventually promoted, transferred, or leaves for a better position with better pay (e.g. regular education).

    It got this bad for many reasons. One, the feminist notion that anyone should be able to do whatever they want. Our schools are filled with those who are terrible at their jobs. No one ever says no to them. Two, many kids with special needs come from broken homes. There is no one to advocate for the children. Some kids are more likely to be injured or die at home than at school. A number of ‘families’ actively try to warehouse their special needs children or put them in situations where they will die easily. Look, you know this is true. You post article after article of single moms who neglect or kill their children. The abuses I see never make the headlines, but they are much more common.

    I wish I was being simplistic and naive. This is one of those cases where I badly wish that were true. Feminists like Karen keep pushing their agenda without considering how utterly damaging their viewpoints have been to children. So yeah, I’m angry with feminists because I actually care about children and families. If that makes me ‘arrogant’, then so be it.

  104. Follow the money Derek……Special Ed is a bogus field of pseudo-science. I have a BS Degree in this and there was little or no testing, very little rectification. It had become a dumping ground mostly for boys with ADHD (another made up thing). Schools get GOBS of money in the USA for having innovative, diverse and creative “special ed” programs. That money that does come gets eaten up by administrative costs (and Unions) or used to teach Downs Syndrome guys like my older brother who had an IQ of about 30 on how to put condoms on bananas by the time the late 1980’s rolled around. Useful things. Not learning how to cross a street, or sign his name, or know his telephone number. How to identify a policeman…..or tell basic time……no,no, no…he was a “victim” and had to be taught useful things like putting condoms on bananas.

    The important things like I mentioned above, things that could HELP him in society he learned at HOME.
    Special Ed offices in schools now are “resource centers”telling parents how to get “programs” and other stuff for free to help them raise their gifted, amazing, child who is disabled…..but so was Einstein! Your kid could be the next one!

    (Einstein didn’t have proper schooling either, nor a special ed classroom)

    Its a place where kids are medded up. Its a place that says all the amazing “work” they are doing and all they are doing is creating and enabling the next generation of welfare takers. I knew a teacher aid to a boy with ADHD a few years back, I asked one evening over tea “how was his day?”

    His reply “Oh, that kid didn’t want to do classwork, screamed and threw a fit, so we watched ‘High School Musical’ three times……I was bored”

    Aid is paid 20 bux plus an hour, plus benefits, plus Union representation to babysit a nine year old all day in school to watch “high school musical”

    Derek is correct about abuse…that teacher in Fresno who put that boy in a cage all day in the special ed classroom. That teacher in Vermont…she used duct tape to keep the boy in his seat. And…..the thousands of doctors in the USA who prescribe ADHD medications to millions of boys, getting them addicted and then we’re “shocked” he’s slamming Meth at 21 and is usless.

    Like abortion doctors who commit murder, these doctors who have ruined millions of lives should have their licenses stripped.

  105. “Nowhere did I say men should stand for women on a bus. I said people (both men and women) should stand for PREGNANT WOMEN on the bus, especially if they are sitting in priority seating. Is your reading ability truly that bad or are you being deliberate obtuse?”

    You are hopelessly contradictory. If men and women are equal, then pregnancy wold be irrelevant. Feminists don’t care a bit about equality, they care deeply about differences and emphasizing them. For example:

    ” I find it interesting how men (who don’t have a uterus) consider abortion to be murder, yet they don’t consider it important to keep unborn babies safe by allowing their mothers to be seated on the bus. Is that not the height of arrogance?”

    It’s super important for feminists to point out our differences (e.g. uterus) and then tell men what they have to do. The very core of your argument is that differences and inequality matter deeply and must be honored and promoted.

    I do give up my seat for pregnant women and I oppose murder of the unborn because my viewpoints are logically consistent. If you could follow your own logic, you’d realize failing to give up your seat is completely and utterly compatible with the choice to murder your unborn children: my body, my choice. It is you who arrogantly contradicts yourself.

    Dalrock’s Law of Feminism states the following: “Feminism is the assertion that men are evil and naturally want to harm women, followed by pleas to men to solve all of women’s problems.” This is what you’ve done. Men are different. They have no uterus. They are not entitled to an opinion. But men have to take care of pregnant women who are not their responsibility. Men like Boxer, Jason, or Honeycomb refuse to give their seat because they know that it just encourages more feminism that hurts women. They are doing those pregnant women a favor and they should be thanked for it, not vilified.

  106. Derek thank you and for the record she’s mentally ill. At this point, she is an automatic ignore when I see her comments.

  107. Honeycomb, I remember when my gf/fiance/wife would occasionally spout feminist talking points. Like Karen she never wanted those personally. Unlike Karen, she’s basically grown out of most of them, in no small part to being exposed to the special education system and seeing the consequences for herself.

    Some feminists fully understand what they do, while others do not. The latter might still be saved. Regardless, it’s interesting once in a while to confront feminists directly to keep this post code from becoming an echo chamber. YMMV.

  108. Jason, in Philadelphia the sibling of one of my best friends died in a school’s care due to their incompetence and neglect.

    My son has to go to a $60k/year private school because the public school would only babysit him. In public school he learned almost all of his alphabet in 1.5 years of full-time education. They were amazed at his progress. He learned to read simple books in only 6 months while going part time to the private school.

    Karen comes her and abuses us for not standing for a pregnant woman. That woman might experience discomfort, but otherwise be perfectly fine. She’s in no real danger. Meanwhile she supports baby murder.

    None of these feminists care about kids with special needs. They can come preach to me when they’ve adopted or fostered a bunch of kids with special needs.

  109. Men like Boxer, Jason, or Honeycomb refuse to give their seat because they know that it just encourages more feminism that hurts women.

    My motivations aren’t so high minded. When I see a woman, I assume she’s a skank-ho wimminz. Years of experience have made these the reasonable, default assumptions.

    My default assumption does not shift in the slightest due to presence of a wedding ring, and this is based on many, many invites for sex offered up by married hoez. If I see a random, married woman, I assume she’s a skank-ho wimminz who was clever and devious enough to trap a brother, which makes her more dangerous, not less.

    If I saw your wife, or some other known quantity, in need of a seat or some other sort of assistance, then sure, I’d help her out. I do the same for elderly men, because the default assumption there is that he’s a retired factory worker, a war veteran, or someone’s grandfather.

    Men deserve respect for building civilization. Wimminz deserve contempt, for tearing it down. I encourage all men to adopt this attitude. It’s the only way to stay safe in the #metoo era.

  110. Derek thank you and for the record she’s mentally ill.

    You’re judging her by normal, male standards. I just see her as a typical skank-ho wimminz, with the typical false accusations (angry – lol – next she’ll make up some violent crimes I’ve committed) and bearing false witness against men. She’s repetitious, refusing to back up her arguments. She’s tedious, repeating the same mantras over and over. This is all just typical wimminz misbehavior.

    Imagine what it must be like to be married to a wimminz like this. Imagine having to deal with this nonsense on a daily basis. Little wonder she spends hours begging for your attention here. I’m sure hub tuned out long ago.

  111. You’re judging her by normal, male standards.

    Heh .. not so fast .. I told her we were not of the same mind .. men and wimminz are different.

    But, yes, I do judge to one standard ..

    And it doesn’t discount this ..

    I just see her as a typical skank-ho wimminz, with the typical false accusations (angry – lol – next she’ll make up some violent crimes I’ve committed) and bearing false witness against men.

    ^^^ Correct-uh-Mondo ^^^

  112. “Its a place that says all the amazing “work” they are doing and all they are doing is creating and enabling the next generation of welfare takers.”

    My son started his education in our school district in the middle of 5th grade. By the end of 6th grade my son still didn’t know his alphabet and could barely do basic addition. The school district, in it’s infinite wisdom, put him on the honor roll, the highest of achievements. That’s because he got 100% on every task, assignment and test. What an AMAZING child! He was allowed to change his incorrect answers (after being given them by his ‘teacher’), never marked wrong or corrected on any mistakes, and never graded on anything he got wrong answers on or couldn’t do.

    On Facebook, other parents were posting their certificates for their child who no doubt worked so hard to get their first honor roll. They were so very proud. My wife and I discussed posting our son’s certificate to let them know what a sham it was, but didn’t have the heart to burst their bubble. I posted his certificate at work so that everyone I work with knows how corrupt our schools are.

    We forced the school to give him social skills classes. Every day when he came home we asked him what he did in social skills class that day (e.g. Lesson 14: Dinner time conversation). He would say “14”. He could read the number at the top of the paper and that was it. He had no idea what the social skills lesson was that day, because they didn’t actually bother to do the lesson with him. His teachers spend most of their day on their phones and computers. No one believes the belligerent parents of a retarded kid.

    The school would prefer to babysit him until age 21 when they no longer have to deal with him. My wife and I are trying our hardest to raise a kid who won’t end up on welfare as an adult. I don’t know if we’ll be successful, and that really, really bothers me.

    “it’s not as simple as labeling teachers as incompetent or malicious [..] When I see a woman, I assume she’s a skank-ho wimminz. Years of experience have made these the reasonable, default assumptions.”

    Boxer, I know that you are a teacher, but for the first time in the history of your blog, you are more naive than I am. Think about your logic. Your default is to assume she is a wimminz. Do you think our schools are magically protected from feminists? It’s quite the contrary: this is where they concentrate, and the effects are stunning.

    Feminists love virtue signaling. Karen has done a tremendous amount of that in this thread. What better way to virtue signal than to work with special needs children? Karen had a lot to say about being Christ-like, so let me conclude with the prime example of Jesus’ humility:

    “If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”

  113. Basically you guys are figuring out something I just noticed about the hypocrisy of feminism.

    Women want to be treated like men…but they still want the men to be men. Problem is you can’t have both…one will be sacrificed. Either women are the head or men are the head…because equality amongst the sexes doesn’t exist. And forcing men to be the head when women start figuring out the shaft feminism gives them isn’t going to work either. MGTOW exists primarily because of feminism…so either stop practicing it ladies…or deal with the fact men aren’t going to be the head.

  114. Except that I DID back up my argument. My argument was that it is legally required for an able-bodied person to give up their priority seat on a bus. Honeycomb, who has apparently travelled everywhere, insisted I was wrong. I posted the link to the actual legislation which proves I am right. But because he would never lower himself to apologize to a woman, especially a feminist one, he’s going to ignore me instead. Right. Excellent character, right there.

    Yes, the jobs feminism has given me the choice of doing are fairly normal, boring jobs that have been around forever. I like it that way. The first few years of our marriage were spent in the public eye, lots of photo shoots. Top-level rugby players are celebrities here and the WAGS have to be on-form at all times, looking glamorous. A cosy job in a dark bar was just what I needed. Plus I took 10 years off work when our son was born – not really conducive to a high-powered career. But the choices were mine to make, which is my point.

    One of you insisted I wasn’t a feminist; now I am, and a terrible one at that. How does that even work?

    I don’t know who Dalrock is and a Google search isn’t coming up with anything, but if you all believe his insane definition of feminism is correct, it’s really no wonder there is so much hate on here towards women.

    The definition of equality as far as feminism goes is really simple: equal opportunity for all; not being stopped from trying because of gender. Treating everyone the same. So a heavily pregnant woman would be treated the same as anyone else with a temporary disability or injury that makes them vulnerable in a jerky bus.

  115. As much as I have issues with some of Dalrock’s forum…..I agree his definition of feminism is correct……..when I was in undergrad all men were *gently forced* to take a womens studies class. The teacher, a doctorate level sociologist apologized at the start of every class / lecture to all the women for being a “a white male” the focused reading was Susan Faludi’s book “Backlash, the undeclared war against american women”

    Most her claims were not cited, and some were incorrectly cited at that. She has since changed her stance on porn because now “third wave feminism” thinks its okay. She even had a problem with the 1970’s TV show “Wonder Woman” (ummmm…..it was based off a comic book from the 1940’s….it isn’t real life) but laughed in an interview about men being “bound and gagged” in every episode back then. Binding and gagging people is funny. Susan is either very repressed or very, very kinky. Like most control freaks are.

    She had a tirade in the book about all men *forcing* women to wear high heels. No dearest, women *force* that on each other. They will wear the most uncomfortable and fugly shoes for the sake of upping and competing with other women. Men don’t make her wear them, and the gay fashion designers who make these uncomfortable shoes should be called out….not me, some random guy on a bus who doesn’t even have a girlfriend and still holds a V card.

    Every problem in the book “american women face daily from men” could only be *solved* by men. Laws passed, more government intervention, more good men to stand up for women (but she says men force her to wear ugly, and uncomfortable shoes).

    The Veep was given howls of condemnation for “not being alone in a room / office with a woman other than his wife”
    The #metoo thing has proved him maybe not correct but at least on his guard. No #metoo allegations will ever appear on the Veep I am sure.

    Feminism is here to stay, as the marriage rate still tumbles, and Oz news will still do stories about “where oh where are the men….how come they don’t ask us awesome women out or date us”

    Feminism will never be brought into question and anyone who does, will be labeled and smeared as “hating women”

    I read “marriage strike” a few years back, and it was okay…..but Dr. Helen was asked on EVERY interview on EVERY new program “why can’t men write a book explaining their situation or side of things?”

    She always and correctly stated “If a man wrote this, he would be told he was a crybaby / hated women / grow up / man up / so what / women have it so much worse….and he would not be taken seriously on anything he brought up”

    And she has been proved correct

  116. Derek……I know a few psychologists from Skidmore College in Saratoga who did work with my brother in the 1980’s on actual interface and skill development for the potentials he had. Perhaps they would have some academic connections in your area.

    My parents had to pay out of pocket for this, but the results were very good overall

  117. Honeycomb, who has apparently travelled everywhere, insisted I was wrong. I posted the link to the actual legislation which proves I am right.

    Wrong.

    It does not prove you are right about my statement. When I travelled the world their was no such law anywhere to my knowledge. Never saw a warning label on a single bus or train. Never saw a conductor remove an unwilling person out of any seat. I was never warned about sitting anywhere I wanted.

    Some public transportation have added wheel-chair spots (i.e. no seats).

    Just because Aussie’s now have such a law doesn’t prove my statement wrong. Another forced government law that men should ignore.

  118. “I don’t know who Dalrock is and a Google search isn’t coming up with anything”

    LOL. He’s a nobody.

    “One of you insisted I wasn’t a feminist; now I am, and a terrible one at that. How does that even work?”

    It doesn’t work. As earl put it, it is the hypocrisy of feminism. You are a walking contradiction. You serve two masters.

    “it’s really no wonder there is so much hate on here towards women.”

    You’ve got that wrong. It’s feminism that I hate, not women. Feminism turns people into monsters.

    “The definition of equality as far as feminism goes is really simple: equal opportunity for all; not being stopped from trying because of gender. Treating everyone the same.”

    Now we finally get to an actual argument. Thank you. Since I will have to cite many sources in my rebuttal, I am going to have to do a guest post. In case I don’t have the time for that, a few quick comments first:

    1) Your definition is vague to the point of uselessness. Applying it without contradiction is impossible. Feel free to provide specific objective criterion if you can. By contrast, Dalrock’s definition is not vague at all.
    2) Your definition does not justify making a man give his seat up for a woman. By contrast, Dalrock’s definition explains it perfectly.
    3) Your definition is countered by vast amounts of empirical evidence suggesting that feminism is, at best, about equal outcomes and, at worst, about unequal opportunities and unequal outcomes in favor of women. Moreover, Dalrock’s definition implies this.
    4) Even if feminism were only about equal opportunity irrespective of gender, its implementation is ironically inextricably linked to inequality of opportunity. In order give females the same opportunities as males, you have to consider gender in a non-neutral way. I’ve already cited a few examples of this in this thread. It’s blatantly obvious with gender-biased abortion rights. It’s also illustrated in that amusing Australian government study where they changed the gender of names on women’s resumes to male names and got fewer interviews.
    5) In light of #4, feminism treats opportunity as a zero-sum game.

  119. Special Education in the 1970’s was more “resource room” based, which actually is better than what we have today. Sure, they were wrong too back then……..in the 1970’s if a child could not walk on a balance beam, it was actually believed that the child had some sort of learning disability…….we know that is untrue today.

    In New York State in 1973, BOCES was started. Every county had one, and that is where high schoolers went for pre training into the trades (barber, LV nurse, basic auto mechanics, vet tech, cosmotology…..). It was also where kids like my brother went for schooling. Our local one was in Saratoga…….even though we lived up in Warren County. It was for kids with cerebal palsy, downs syndrome…..developmental disabilities..usually combined with health problems and / or severe mental retardation…not your “learning disabled” kid or the kid that just needed extra help in math or reading……the “resource room” in the elementary school was for that.

    In 1986, the NYS education reform act was railroaded through the state, and it did make school days longer but it hooked on the buzzword “mainstreaming” into the schools and pushed this population from BOCES who would not benefit from calculus, or english comp or competitive gym classes but all the experts said it would. It was a disaster, it created several new bureaucratic levels in the education system……and all these mainstreamed kids were now given one on one aids and didn’t learn a thing………so they ended up being hearded all day into the resource room and did very little….babysat until the age of 21.

    In Saratoga our family was fortunate from a non-profit group called ARC (Association of Retarded Citizens) and that chapter had generous funding and donations (bright people running the funding side). They got my older brother into a habituation program in 1987 for job training. He ended up being a full-time dishwasher at the Marriott Hotel in Saratoga…without an aid after two years…….and he ended up moving into one of their excellent groups homes there in 1992. Our family owed this excellent non-profit a lot…..and my father when he died left a very generous sum to them in his will. My mother too.

  120. Jason, thank you for your offer. For the time being our son is getting the services he needs and that will continue for a while. That could change in the future, but we’ll cross that bridge when it comes.

    We got a psych eval for our son and it was quite informative. The school also performed their own evaluation. Surprise, surprise, their evaluation showed that our son should be fit into whatever metaphorical boxes the school already provided for other students and no additional changes to their program were necessary. Our independent eval told a much different, very accurate story. But none of that matters, as the only way to do anything is to take your chance in an expensive legal battle where you have no guarantee of winning, despite being obviously on the side of right.

  121. The government screws everything up. No exceptions.

    In fact it’s down right criminal!

  122. Okay, a few points.
    First, Earl said this: “Women want to be treated like men…but they still want the men to be men.” Not quite. Women want to be treated as equal in worth to men, rather than inferior. And yes we still want our men to be men. For much of history, women have been thought of as inferior to men, and treated as such. Feminism fought to change that.

    Derek Ramsay said: ” 1) Your definition is vague to the point of uselessness. Applying it without contradiction is impossible. Feel free to provide specific objective criterion if you can. By contrast, Dalrock’s definition is not vague at all.
    2) Your definition does not justify making a man give his seat up for a woman. By contrast, Dalrock’s definition explains it perfectly.
    3) Your definition is countered by vast amounts of empirical evidence suggesting that feminism is, at best, about equal outcomes and, at worst, about unequal opportunities and unequal outcomes in favor of women. Moreover, Dalrock’s definition implies this.
    4) Even if feminism were only about equal opportunity irrespective of gender, its implementation is ironically inextricably linked to inequality of opportunity. In order give females the same opportunities as males, you have to consider gender in a non-neutral way. I’ve already cited a few examples of this in this thread. It’s blatantly obvious with gender-biased abortion rights. It’s also illustrated in that amusing Australian government study where they changed the gender of names on women’s resumes to male names and got fewer interviews.
    5) In light of #4, feminism treats opportunity as a zero-sum game.”

    My answers: 1) I thought equal opportunities for all was fairly self-explanatory, really, but point #4 actually does make sense.
    There are always going to be inequalities of opportunity, though, whether that’s through poverty, social class, disability, age, whatever. Perhaps it’s the implementation at fault, rather than the philosophy?
    Equal opportunity means just that: everyone having the opportunity to reach their full potential, whatever that may be, and not being held back by discriminatory factors such as gender.
    Feminists like me (ie the majority of us, not the hard-core ones who hate men) believe the playing field should be level. If women are competing against men, the rules should be the same; the men should not be handicapped so the women can keep up. That wasn’t what feminism was meant to be about. That’s not equality.

    2) My definition does not suggest a man should give up his seat for a woman. And nowhere have I stated that a man should give up his seat for a woman. But it does suggest that everybody has the right to ride the bus, and those that need priority seating – disabled, injured, elderly, pregnant – should be able to access it freely. Public transport shouldn’t be limited to only those with no mobility/healthy issues. Late-stage pregnancy is no different to someone with a sprained ankle, as far as priority seating on the bus goes – if someone who doesn’t need the priority seat is sitting in it and someone who does need it gets on, the person who doesn’t need it gets off, regardless of whether they’re male or female.

    3) My definition was not about outcomes, it was about opportunity. Again, implementation rather than philosophy. Probably a by-product of our PC world where everyone is a winner and there are no losers and we all get participation certificates. That’s nothing to do with feminism.

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