Rock Concert With Jesus

jesus

Down below, our brother Jason sheds light on his recent loss of faith. I don’t want to make him (or anyone) feel like I’m putting his decisions under a microscope, but reading Jason’s prose often makes me introspective about my own life.

Some eight months ago, I moved to a new part of the country. One of the first things I tried to do was to find a suitable church. In my old area (at the opposite end of the continent) I was part of a tight-knit Catholic community. I have never been a Catholic, and am sure I wouldn’t be eligible for membership, but over the course of the past few years I did pretty much everything that the other people did in that congregation, including donate regular offerings, and volunteer for service work.

I think I didn’t fully understand exactly how much I was getting out of being a part of the whole thing until today, when it’s still tangible in my memory, and when I feel the pain of losing a community of people I came to rely upon to help me make sense of the world and my place in it. Weirdly enough, I feel a bit ashamed of the realization that I was using the rites in a crass whataya doin’ for me? fashion, but I think, like Jason, I was originally hungry for some authentic connection, and I was using communion for exactly the purpose which it was originally meant.

Since moving here, I’ve found a group of Catholics who have nothing of the solemn regard for tradition that was extant in the old place. They are a bunch of fat old slobs who sing weird folk songs and never make eye contact.

I started filling in as a high school teacher when I moved here, and one of my colleagues at the red brick schoolhouse recommended what he claimed was a fantastic place, full of the spirit of God and healthy communion with decent people. What it turned out to be was a protestant megachurch, and the service was more-or-less a bad rock concert, with a minimal amount of Jesus talk around the edges.

I suppose I was desperate, because after that I actually checked out a Zen center, and found it packed with a bunch of fossilized old boomers from the beat generation. At least one of these old coots smelled heavily of a mixture of marijuana and B.O..

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I checked out a reform temple. Those guys, I thought, were monotheists, so while they aren’t my people, maybe I’ll have something in common with them. I entered to find the place crawling with loud, mannish dykes, and feminist “conscious-raising” seminars (for wimminz and their allies – lol) were advertised in the bulletin.

In every attempt, I have found zero opportunity to escape the mundane and commune with the divine. What people in all these communities (lol) are interested in is creating a gay, boring simulacrum of an actual religious ceremony, which allows them to go through some of the motions, without ever having to hear any criticism about their (possible or actual) bad conduct.

So, like Jason, I’m fairly disillusioned with the possibility of organized worship.

Like Jason, I’ve often considered myself an atheist, though it’d be more accurate to describe me as an agnostic. I’ve certainly never seen any evidence that there’s anything after this life. Like every man, I’ve done things, great and small, that can be counted as evils. It’s possible that I might be called to account for such things one day.

The greatest evil in my own tradition was always apostasy, or idolatry. This is seen as far worse than other grave sins, like fucking Black women, or drinking wine with dinner.

The Catholics were our eternal enemies, I was taught, because they worship statues, and they pray to their goddess Mary, and their god Jesus, neither of whom is our God. Mary and Jesus and all the saints were people, not God, and God counts prayers to statues of mortal men and women as grievous insults.

I used to be content with the conclusion that all the stories about God were fanciful fairy tales, and the ravings of lunatics. Now, I’m not nearly so certain. It’s possible that I might be judged and condemned for my bad deeds one day. One thing I became absolutely confident of, while I knelt below the crucifix, was that this God wasn’t the sort of petty, emotional tyrant that my teachers implied he was. The Mormon God created me with a nice Mormon brain, and with it I deduced that he wouldn’t actually mind if I honored him by venerating some old heroes in the text of the Bible. The time I spent in the enemy cathedral brought me closer to Him, rather than further away.

I don’t have anything else to say, other than to express my openness to the possibility of an authentic religious experience, because while I’m skeptical about all these supernatural stories, I’ve felt it myself.

And in closing, I’ll leave all you brothers with a song, that probably won’t mean shit to any of you. It’s a radical masculine song, written during the old days, when my people used to dream of living in a worker’s state. When I hear it, I feel the spirit and presence of my grandfathers, and I’m convinced that whatever hardships life might bring, I’ll be able to overcome.

Author: Boxer

Sinister All-Male Dancer. Secret King of all Gamma Males. Member of Frankfurt School. Your Fave Contrarian!

30 thoughts on “Rock Concert With Jesus”

  1. “One thing I became absolutely confident of, while I knelt below the crucifix, was that this God wasn’t the sort of petty, emotional tyrant that my teachers implied he was.”

    This is exactly the same conclusion I have come to, but trying to share it with legalists is like fighting the tide.

    “I don’t have anything else to say, other than to express my openness to the possibility of an authentic religious experience, because while I’m skeptical about all these supernatural stories, I’ve felt it myself.”

    Indeed. Whenever I discuss Christianity, I try to avoid discussion of the supernatural (miracles, spiritual interaction, etc.)—except for the resurrection—because such things tend to be highly personal and subjective: not the kind of thing intended for mass consumption.

  2. I wasn’t allowed any “official” leadership inside the Salvation Army because of my past…….and I understand them wanting to be “sure” I had changed my life…..what I didn’t understand even after ten years was “what else do I have to do to be accepted here?”

    I kept hearing community. A ‘band of brothers’. True friendship, and I noticed it was none of the sort. I opened up after a few years about my problems with women, “Just pray” and “the Holy Spirit will guide you to when to ask a woman out” and the one that hurt, so bad “I just thought you were gay, and were living a celibate life…….” (which meant the WHOLE local church and greater Sally Army in the region thought this). I asked why would you think this?

    “You dress very well……you like to dance, and well………you were not hitting on the women here, and you work very well with children.” (I thought I was supposed to wait on the Holy Ghost???????)

    Since they would not allow me leadership in any ministry, I decided to go throught the Boy Scouts of America. I proved myself there. No matter my past at IBM, my work on the Board of Trustees of my undergrad, working with RIF (Reading Is Fundamental) for teaching adults how to read……………working with the homeless on the streets…….none of it mattered.

    What only mattered was I was body that could be lectured to by the elite. This is not just the Sally Army. This is any church today. Ten to twenty men talkin’ and struttin’ on how they are a leader, an alpha, how they had to beat women off with a stick before they met their “amazing wife” and just smug in their salvation, and how fools like me NEED them in order to get better.

    Many churches are man deserts, not looking at themselves as to why this has happened. Jesus called for a community. Paul let everyone know that the body required all the parts. The reality? The pastor and a few men have everything. You have nothing without Jesus…..now tithe more to the building program, because we’re a church that is “reaching out” (lol).

    These men, the cuckservatives, and the red pilled Christian man-o-sphere are the root of the same problem. A few men have all the skills, and gifts while the rest of you are hopeless……….many in the man-o-sphere would be pretty brutal dictators if indeed they were running the world.

    It boils down in the end to sin, and living in a broken world. They will blame men like me. Men who have NOT the means, the intellect, the looks, the skills, the gifts to somehow ruin everything. Christianity, and marriage within that place is an elite club………….forget following Jesus………the reason why the churches are empty of men is because of men like the men in the man-o-sphere.

    I am sure jesus approves, they all know what he *really* meant

  3. Boxer said: “What it turned out to be was a protestant megachurch, and the service was more-or-less a bad rock concert, with a minimal amount of Jesus talk around the edges.”

    and

    Jason said: “Many churches are man deserts, not looking at themselves as to why this has happened. “

    It’s been a decade since I last attended an Anabaptist church regularly. That church was long past its prime, but it was still preaching high quality material (except perhaps my own sermons) in a traditional format. They even had a functional pipe organ.

    Our family spends so much time in another state (for medical reasons) that we found a local church there. It’s a traditional-service, liberal UMC, with a female pastor and not-explicit-from-the-pulpit pro-homosexual agenda. Sermons are of the weak type Boxer noted at the megachurch. Yet they have a strong community and are the kind of church that lovingly welcomes others with open arms. But they are a man desert. We took our kids to their VBS camp. Out of 45 kids at the camp, there were 4 or 5 male… two of them our children. The youth group is a decent size, but it’s female dominated by a strong majority.

    At home we left our dying liberal UMC church for a non-denominational church with services (of ~200 persons) in the music style Boxer describes. The sermons are generally excellent, though not really what the manosphere would prefer (like the female participation in the service). Here also the community is strong. But by significant contrast, the church is made up mostly of married couples. There are men everywhere. While every church has many attending women without a man, it’s not unusual to find men by themselves in the church. By my estimate it is a healthy 50/50 split.

    I’ve been to a number of megachurches in my area, and they all have excellent preaching. They are just too big and I don’t love the format. I once attended a megachurch in Seattle once, one of the few West Coast churches I’ve attended, and it was an abomination. Although I vastly prefer a traditional service, I don’t see any obvious correlation between the format (traditional vs contemporary) and the quality of preaching.

    “I kept hearing community. A ‘band of brothers’. True friendship, and I noticed it was none of the sort.”

    The reason I attend the church I do is because it has a strong children’s program. My kids can be with other Christian kids and grow positively. I have no idea if it’s the kind of church that would meet Jason’s needs, but like Jason, I choose churches primarily on that basis, except instead of doing it for myself I do it for my kids.

    Before we had kids, my wife and I attended an Anabaptist church for many years. I attended a weekly men’s group and we had that band of brothers, including a member somewhat like Jason. I know I’m mocked incessantly for promoting the Anabaptists, but what else am I to do? They are the only group I’ve ever found that does things right in the way that seems to matter to Boxer, Jason, and many others in the manosphere. Boxer frequently tells me to fix Christianity or leave it, but I’m not going to denounce what works. We would have continued to attend there if we had never had kids (too far of a drive, no other kids there, few young persons, etc.).

  4. “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.” – Matthew 7:13-14 (NKJV)

    Churches are just a reflection of the people who attend them, so it should not surprise that most churches are worthless at best. Disappointing and discouraging, sure, but not surprising.

  5. and the one that hurt, so bad “I just thought you were gay, and were living a celibate life…….” (which meant the WHOLE local church and greater Sally Army in the region thought this). I asked why would you think this?

    If this ever happened to me, I’d get all sombre, and say, in a low voice…

    “Look, I need to confess something to you. I’ve had it on my conscience for a long time. Your (wife/daughter/sister) came on to me last year, and I couldn’t resist… I’m so sorry, brother…”

    See how that shit works for these AMOG fuckers.

  6. I know I’m mocked incessantly for promoting the Anabaptists, but what else am I to do?

    I’m not going to mock a man for associating with a fringe ethno-religious minority. I mean, I guess I could try, but the comebacks would be quick.

    They are the only group I’ve ever found that does things right in the way that seems to matter to Boxer, Jason, and many others in the manosphere. Boxer frequently tells me to fix Christianity or leave it, but I’m not going to denounce what works. We would have continued to attend there if we had never had kids (too far of a drive, no other kids there, few young persons, etc.).

    The problem with promoting that to outsiders is obvious: anabaptists are an ethnic group. You can join one of their folk religious movements, I suppose, but you’d never be a member, just an outsider who is hanging on.

  7. The Catholics were our eternal enemies, I was taught, because they worship statues, and they pray to their goddess Mary, and their god Jesus, neither of whom is our God. Mary and Jesus and all the saints were people, not God, and God counts prayers to statues of mortal men and women as grievous insults.

    Lol…so I guess Joe Smith wasn’t visited by Peter, James, and John after all.

  8. But thanks for the info, Boxer. Next time I have some missionaries try to convert me…I’ll just up front tell them I’m Catholic.

  9. Lol…so I guess Joe Smith wasn’t visited by Peter, James, and John after all.

    I’m not sure what you’re implying here. Jesus and his apostles are held in high regard, and observant/religious Mormons certainly hold that Elohim (our God) can send them down from heaven to intercede in our affairs. That doesn’t mean we pray to them or hold that they’re gods in their own right. They’re more like angels to us.

    But thanks for the info, Boxer. Next time I have some missionaries try to convert me…I’ll just up front tell them I’m Catholic.

    It’d be even more fun to send them to this blog and encourage them to debate theology with their wayward brother Boxer.

    Come on, elders, post in the comments section at v5k2c2! We got Laman, Lemuel, and the sons of Ishmael all here in attendance. Maybe you can save us from perdition!

  10. Man was I wrong about you Boxer, I thought you were Mormon to intellectual atheist.
    Your faith testimony is still incomplete though, what was your inner journey were you ever Mormon if you care to share.
    Also sounds like you were receiving communion without being Catholic which is very wrong thing to do. You won’t get the graces that way.
    Join formally with the wretched RCIA then find the traditional Catholic mass. The true church is going underground getting harder and harder. I’m a convert myself and it’s abysmal just soldiering thru.

    I also get what Jason saying much better.

  11. While in the UK, I attended morning prayers at an Anglican church (in London, Manchester, and Betwys Y Coed / Wales). I did this mostly in honor of my mother since she was raised in the COE tradition, it was in strange way showing respect for her. It was the church I was culturally raised in as a boy in the 1970’s. When the Common Book of Prayer was changed in 1978. My mother quit going (hence the rest of the family too. Dad was a lapsed Polish Catholic). While staying with family in Wales, I even invited them along….they laughed hard “Waste of time! / Churchmen are the worst of the worst in this kingdom!”

    Anyway, in London, Manchester, and Wales…….it was me, and the Vicar. No one else. Not even in London.
    The Vicar was of African descent at all the churches….even in Wales. I smirked to myself over that distinct British English accent that Africans speak. Clean, precise and dutiful.

    I did enjoy the quiet of these empty old churches. I found my grandfather’s, and great grandfathers names in the rolls in the local Anglican church in Wales……and additional family going back to the end of the 1600’s. A connection of sorts to a past of rural life in the Welsh dominion……..

    I thought about random Brit subjects (young and old) who still not only practiced the faith, but live it…….must be a very lonely life.

    I also pondered “how” it came to be like this….even my Welsh family “scoffed” at the idea of “church”
    They didn’t say anything about “god” or “jesus” they scoffed at the “churchmen” (leaders and lay persons). I thought as to why my mother even left her faith tradition………the “common book of prayer” being changed was her reasons.

    The red-pilled man-o-sphere would jump in glee “see, see…its because of feminism, chivalry…….and cuckservaties!!! They allowed this, if they just had real men in leadership, and we learned Frame all would be well!”

    I see a part of this…but something, more…..much more. The church doesn’t need to be all things to all people, nor should it be just a social club but I honestly believe……after seeing this myself………

    Many didn’t see jesus, or god, or this faith that is lived. They saw man. They saw traditions. They saw only what I experienced. They didn’t see walking deeper. They didn’t see answers. They only saw posturing, only saw the worst in interpersonal social behavior. They only saw staggering “intellect” that they would never be able to grasp. They saw rules by man and not of god…………and the worst of it. They still see a place in a crisis……..and not one ounce of repentance, or humility or even “hey…….we may have been wrong on how we treated people”

    They have doubled down on their SJW church or their club that “loves jesus more than anything” and yet can’t fill the pews. The problem still lies within the fact that, the church and the faithful blamed ME……….a man who isn’t smart. Isn’t rich. Isn’t cool. Has zero influence. Hasn’t written books. Doesn’t have a popular blog. Can’t “quote scripture with the best of them” and was labeled as a beta, not a real man, assumed to be gay…..and beyond redemption or even responsibility because I was a former addict. Yet, in the same breath demanding that I “be a man”

    I am not alone here, and this faith gets exactly what it deserves. To die.

  12. “It’d be even more fun to send them to this blog and encourage them to debate theology with their wayward brother Boxer.”

    Once James White was in St. Lake City trolling—I mean witnessing to—Mormons and one of them told him to “go to hell.” He replied, “according to your theology, I can’t.” Apparently the Mormon had no retort.

    “See how that shit works for these AMOG fuckers.”

    If that worked, it would say an awful lot about the their marriages.

    “The problem with promoting that to outsiders is obvious: anabaptists are an ethnic group. You can join one of their folk religious movements, I suppose, but you’d never be a member, just an outsider who is hanging on.”

    With the exception of the insular Anabaptists—Amish, Hutterites, and ultra-plain Mennonites—the Anabaptists are not a strict ethic group. In the more “liberal” branches (we drove cars with chrome and were allowed to own a TV), anyone can join by just showing up, just like other protestant churches. Indeed, I learned multiculturalism and anti-racism from my Anabaptist upbringing.* To love as Jesus commanded requires opening your doors to anyone who wants to come in.

    If you can get past a physical relocation, the real problem with joining the Anabaptists is not their acceptance, but unwillingness to conform (no fornication, divorce, remarriage, lying, swearing, immodesty, alcohol, drugs, smoking, killing a human for any reason, substantial consumption of non-Christian entertainment, etc.). You are expected to be humble, generous, and service-oriented. You must love everyone you hate and suffer for them. You must be non-violent even if it means your death or the death of your loved ones. You can rigorously debate the finer points of theology and doctrine, but at the end of the day you have to submit to the elders and the church body.

    * In 1688, the Quakers and Mennonites in Germantown were the first religious group in America to condemn slavery. At the time the Mennonites worshiped with the Quakers because they had not yet set up their own churches. They split in 1690 and William Rittenhouse (my wife’s direct ancestor) became the first Mennonite minister in America.

  13. chronoblip said: “Churches are just a reflection of the people who attend them, so it should not surprise that most churches are worthless at best.”

    and

    Jason said: “The red-pilled man-o-sphere would jump in glee “see, see…its because of feminism, chivalry…….and cuckservaties!!! They allowed this…”

    Is it the fault of the minority and powerless that the majority and powerful took over? The primary fault must lie with those who abandoned the faith. When those who are still faithful realize they can not win, they do what they must: leave. Those remaining are as Jason describes:

    “They have doubled down on their SJW church or their club that “loves jesus more than anything” and yet can’t fill the pews.”

    They can’t fill the pews because their ‘theology’ is self-defeating. It is like cancer. It is everywhere and completely unsurprising. Whenever a denomination embraces liberalized sexuality, it starts a precipitous membership decline. Nothing will save it.

    There is a supply and demand problem. You can’t fill pews with people not interested in what you are selling. Righteous and clean living, strong marriages and families, and a loving connected community are a tough sell.

    The manosphere and its types are insignificant and irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if they are alpha, beta, or anything else. They were never the cause of the problem or its solution.

    Abandoning cancerous Christianity is correct, but where is the viable alternative that people will actually accept? We could move and join an Amish community or Hutterite commune and give up our current way of life. But none of us are going to do that. Not a chance. As much as I extol the benefits of (some) Anabaptists, I no longer attend one of their churches for various reasons.

  14. I’m not sure what you’re implying here. Jesus and his apostles are held in high regard, and observant/religious Mormons certainly hold that Elohim (our God) can send them down from heaven to intercede in our affairs.

    I’m implying that if Mormons think Catholics pray to statues or consider Mary a goddess…then Joe Smith was not visited by John. Christ gave John (and by extension all of humanity) his mother from the cross and John took her into his home. And if the apostles are held in high regard…then you should be Catholic since apostolic tradition is part of the faith.

  15. Nonsense Derek. The blame does not lie with men like me who abandoned the faith. Excrement. Whale excrement.

    When one like myself “doth read the bible both day and night” and any reflection or input was met with “no, it means this…in greek / hebrew the root word is this or that, you are wrong. Paul really meant this. Jesus meant to say that.”

    After hearing this trillion times, why was I reading the bible? The learned, and self-righteous with their stiffling intellect were telling what it was supposed to mean, what exactly the concept that was being put fourth. I din’t need to read the bible, any insight was “wrong” or misguided because I didn’t know “church history” or the “culture of that time in ancient palestine”

    Why have or read the bible then? Why have it in english. It should be in greek, and if you want to “study” it, just go to the local college, study greek become fluent and voila…..it will all be perfectly clear. Simple right?

    Spiritual gifts….ah yes…….the Salvation Army had this “test” to determine where your “gifts” from god were. Well, the important gifts like arrogance, pride, lust, boastful, and a confidence in any of personal their abilities that bordered on the absurd were lauded and rewarded!!! My gifts? Service, prayer, and the teaching of children were not needed. What? A man that has a gift to work with young children? Must be a closeted fag, or supreme beta…..we all know that’s ‘womens work’ men are supposed to watch football, drink a beer, scratch themselves and talk nonstop about how all the losers men out there are not like them.

    So, I had a gift for working with young children….but I was not allowed to work with children bc of my past, but not using your gift is a sin, and makes god ‘sad’

    Prayer…lol………it only means something when its correct and christian to say it “I’ll pray for you” was a common thing I heard in the church. Well, let’s pray right now. On our knees. We know jesus-is-the-only-thing-that-matters right?

    A billion excuses, and sheer indignity for even saying that “Brother I pray all the time! You don’t know me!” Looking back, thankful I didn’t know them.

    The Matt Chandlers, Mark Driscolls, the Pipers, the Bishop Sheen’s, the rank and file pastor, and priest all those richly dressed priests in orthodoxy will continue to blame men like me for all the faults, problems with the framework of the modern church. Men like me who have no power, no authority, no influence, not needed / wanted skills or potentials. It’s a place full of all self-righteous chiefs and no indians. They have only their yes men, and spend more time saying how “its not our fault”

    I am sure jesus will understand.

    the small but vocal minority in the man-o-sphere is not better. All answers “just repeal the 19th ammendment” or “just have rock solid Frame at all times” and “Rollo says….” and “Just marry a NAWALT, easy!”

    self congradultory clique that would have flushed my head in the toilet back in high school “Har, har har…I’m so alpha bro!”

    Most men just wanted to see jesus in action. Most men just wanted something bigger than themselves. Most realized that it was high school redux….as for something bigger? I get more healing mentally hiking, backpacking and camping.

    I am many things, and sadly mostly have been pretty bad. I could not get redemption in a church or from supposed believers….but I will not take one OUNCE or DRAM of blame for the state of the church today. I had no abilities whatsoever to influence this outcome. Put the blame where it lies, on the know-it-alls running it

  16. “Nonsense Derek. The blame does not lie with men like me who abandoned the faith. Excrement. Whale excrement.”

    That’s not what I said. I said the fault with our corrupted churches lies with those who corrupted it. They corrupted the faith, effectively forcing out everyone else. You are among those forced out, not those doing the forcing.

  17. Jason, here is what I said:

    “Is it the fault of the minority and powerless that the majority and powerful took over? The primary fault must lie with those who abandoned the faith. When those who are still faithful realize they can not win, they do what they must: leave. Those remaining are as Jason describes”

    The majority and the powerful took over our churches. The primary fault lies with them for betraying the faith. Those still faithful were forced out of the churches. Indeed, those remaining in the church are among those you criticized. I don’t think you abandoned the faith, I think the “faithful” (in the popular vernacular) abandoned you.

  18. Well…..I did make the choice to say “done. out. this faith has caused me harm. has stifled me. Has limited me, and frankly takes a ton of credit in my life where it never deserved any.”

    Something good happens? That’s god working! Something bad happens? I must have done something wrong and broken some “rule” that god said somewhere in the book of numbers or some never quoted verse at in the back end of romans. I kept me sober. Not god. I could get pendanic about it but somewhere in there I am sure there is a verse not being allowed to use the bathroom…or interpeted as such

    Now, to the faithful…I’m damned to the place of gnashing teeth and maggots. Fine. I’ll take that answer from them because it doesn’t exist…..no bolts of lightening EVER stuck anyone down for premartial sex…all the “holy” men in the ‘sphere after they found their NAWALT look down upon me because I dare have a desire. No one can be redeemed by christ…unless its THEIR sin or THEIR past. Anyone else has to “live with their consequences because the bible says….but be faithful, be holy and MAYBE you’ll get to heaven…..but your life on earth? Live in shame, but listen to how god is blessing ME everyday”

    Like I said……”they can have it” I don’t want to be with them for eternity in a place that rewards this, and they are a big reason why many leave.

  19. He-Man sez:

    Man was I wrong about you Boxer, I thought you were Mormon to intellectual atheist. Your faith testimony is still incomplete though, what was your inner journey were you ever Mormon if you care to share.

    Being a Mormon is a matter of birth. My parents were both raised in observant households, but by the time I arrived, they were pretty much secular. I went to primary and sunday school sometimes, growing up, but was never a formal member of any of the competing religions.

    Also sounds like you were receiving communion without being Catholic which is very wrong thing to do. You won’t get the graces that way.

    I use the term communion in the more general way. Think ‘community’.

    To be clear: I did go up to the altar often, but I didn’t partake of the eucharistic feast. In that church I’d go up and fold my arms and the priest would pray for me and then excuse me.

    The priest was a really old geezer and he became my friend. He had a pretty effective way of prodding people to be their best selves, without being either aggressive or sappy. I pretty much loved everyone in that community, from crippled up abuela, who shuffled in with a walker, to the little kids who squirmed and whispered.

    Join formally with the wretched RCIA then find the traditional Catholic mass. The true church is going underground getting harder and harder. I’m a convert myself and it’s abysmal just soldiering thru.

    I thought about it sometimes. I am pretty sure it would be unethical to swear that I’m abandoning immorality, given that I’ll just be plowing an(other) anonymous slut, within 36 hours after my baptism. Know thyself, and all that…

  20. Jason – i cannot truly relate to your walk and the struggles you’ve had to endure. I’ve seen some of what you have observed in as disparate places as an inner-city pentecostal churches but also in calvinist/orthodox reformed churches in the City and surrounding suburbs. I offer this in love – you sound bitter – and while it’s ok and normal to grieve/grapple with life’s setbacks and dark providences from above – you should guard your inner thought life from having any root of bitterness take full hold. Just let it go. You don’t need to explain yourself to any of the anonymous mockers, scorners, trolls, haters, alphas, etc on these parts of the web. Nor do you need to give an account to men who would seek to have you fear them more than you fear God. How i wish we didnt live in separate coasts, so that we could break bread in person. You keep living life where God has you, and leave the institutional church behind.

  21. Welcome, Brother.

    I offer this in love – you sound bitter – and while it’s ok and normal to grieve/grapple with life’s setbacks and dark providences from above – you should guard your inner thought life from having any root of bitterness take full hold. Just let it go.

    I tend to agree with this, and that was one of the points I was trying to make.

    The fact that Book X may not be a perfectly accurate, unbiased collection of historical facts, doesn’t make it useless. The fact that one man decides that Christianity might not be for him, doesn’t mean that he needs to abandon the notion of a creator, or the cultivation of a spiritual life.

    You don’t need to explain yourself to any of the anonymous mockers, scorners, trolls, haters, alphas, etc on these parts of the web.

    Jason is free to publish anything he likes here, under his own name or under a pseudonym, whether I or anyone else agrees with it or not.

    As an aside, if it were twenty years ago, I’d be more comfortable sending Jason over to the atheist meetings. They used to be fun places full of bright people doing interesting stuff. Unfortunately, the same feminist cunts that have destroyed Jason’s churches have also ruined those gatherings.

    https://www.atheistrev.com/2012/08/the-freethought-bullies-meme.html

    Best,

    Boxer

  22. NYC Area Reader.

    Thank you for your encouragement. Bitter you say? You think? I have been called bitter ever since I became a Christian. I mean, I could walk on to Dalrock’s page (before I was removed) and say “Good morning men” and I would have a slew of retorts telling me “Why are you so bitter!?”

    So its in perspective….and I again wasn’t blessed with esp or mind reading which seems to be the norm over there.

    I’m more upset that I was directly, and bluntly lied to by people who claim they view that as “evil” and a “sin”.
    And I hedged my bet on this, and I was a sucker and lost. The results by these folks (in the church…and man-o-sphere) probably have set me back another ten years. It’s like these folks don’t want me to progress, but then lecture me about learning bizzaro concepts they themselves don’t even follow or believe. Sanctimonious pricks.

    Have I met a few striving decent Christians? Yes. I have also met plenty of athiests in my life that live a more moral and upstanding life than your average Dalrock or Deep Strenght poster.

    I can no longer believe in a god or his son, or the holy hosts, the legions of angels wanting so much good for me, so much love for me…….and yet, forced a hand on me of loneliness, a past addiction that no one has ever forgiven me for (I could find a cure for HPV, and the world would still have to remind me that I was an addict, and that wisdom was from god…..and I “had better realize who gave me the means to find this cure!!”

    The modern church and the man-o-sphere are todays “teachers of the law” and I wouldn’t put violence as a part of their solution past any of them.

    Thanks again for your kind words…..but after my UK trip, coming home losing my brother……..now I am really alone and the consultation I got was “maybe God is testing you”

    Coming from a man who has children with nice teeth, a good job, a very attractive NAWALT wife and has his parents still alive, and all his siblings……f*cker

    Anyway……….I don’t think Christians are stupid, deluded or should be killed….or silenced…..but they are the most elite, snobby, closed group of people I have ever met……….think check-pants old golfer republicans

  23. btw…..in June 2020 I will be back in “upstate NY” hiking / backpacking in the Adirondacks for two weeks. I got tghe whole month off so I would be happy to meet with you downstate or on the island. Would be happy to meet up for dinner, a walk……..

  24. @Jason

    “Well…..I did make the choice to say “done. out. this faith has caused me harm. has stifled me. Has limited me, and frankly takes a ton of credit in my life where it never deserved any.””

    Well, you do have to own that choice and live with the any possible consequences, but that choice didn’t destroy the church or Christianity. You are not the source of my ire. Whether your struggles are your fault or not, I honestly don’t think it matters, because:

    “Something good happens? That’s god working! Something bad happens?…”

    …That’s God working. That’s the way I’ve always viewed it. The Anabaptists have been highly persecuted. Something bad happening has always been par for the course. No matter how brutally difficult life is, and it is difficult at times, you pick yourself up and keep fighting. This is the same as the masculinity that Boxer promotes: Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel and overcome.

    I agree with you on this: It’s preferable if you have others to bear the load with you.

  25. Jason, i just sent a private message to Boxer at the Proton Mail email address he posted on this blog piece. If you are serious about touching base in June 2020, send Boxer a note at that same email address and he can link us up via email.

    BOXER – i just emailed you from my personal yahoo account (partially redacted, but its essentially this: ****drp**** at yahoo dot com) . Please pass along to Jason if he reaches out to you. Thank you.

  26. Boxer,
    Glad to hear that you weren’t actually receiving. You remind me of St Augustine so thinking he’s a great patron saint for you.
    Tomorrow’s not guaranteed for anyone, make the plunge soon before it’s too late. Not worth going to Hell over b***es and h**s you know.

    Jason obviously fellowship means a lot to you. I’ve long given up on that. My particular cross has always been being a misfit in any group I belong to even among the traditional Catholics that I aspire to join. You should consider Catholicism not just because true but the parishes are like a franchise you can go from one to another and then find an apostolate you like. Catholicism fits both the sociable and the introverted types who want to be left alone.

  27. It is a funny thing, where our search for authenticity and identity can lead.

    It is refreshing, I suppose, to read conclusions and experiences of those on the journey, especially when they are so obviously honest and far removed from fear of judgement and so forth.

    Hopefully you find your place. Hopefully we all do. But then again, the hunt is in the chase and the devil is in the details.

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