Why Christianity Redux

After asserting that Christianity is full of hate and that God silently approves, Brother Boxer implored Brother Earl and myself to abandon Christianity.

“You guys should consider converting to something else. You really aren’t Christians, and the Christians don’t deserve you, anyway.”

A few Brothers took issue with Boxer’s categorization of Christianity as a hateful and evil religion with the approval of God. They claimed that many Christians are No True Christians.

While Boxer declined to give us a sensible alternative to Christianity, no alternative is needed.  In truth, Christianity is operating as designed. We most certainly should not abandon Christianity. In order to show and explain this, we have to examine the roots of the religion. Consider the following claims:

  1. The Universe had a beginning and a Creator.
  2. Life was designed.
  3. Jesus really existed.
  4. Jesus died and was resurrected.

The first and second are arguments of science, logic, and philosophy. The third and fourth are arguments of history. Together these arguments bypass the majority of the Jewish folk religion as irrelevant, while showing the authority and significance of Jesus. In doing so Christianity is established as a religion with a concrete, Big Bang-like origin—not an arbitrary folk religion subject to the whims of its adherents or cultural shifts.

In order to answer “Why Christianity?” one must consider the words of Jesus, its founder.

“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

The way is ‘narrow’ in that following Jesus involves trials, suffering, and a strenuous effort to accept. Indeed, this was promised in spades.

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

Perhaps suffering is the reason why there will be so few followers of Jesus. Yet, if you find suffering, you will find the followers of Jesus loving.

Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It’s a bitter pill that those who love must suffer. It may sound trite and clichéd, but the reason the followers of Jesus persist is because love is more powerful than suffering. While physics has four fundamental forces, Christianity has one: love.

But what about all of those who have corrupted the teachings? This is expected.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

and

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

In summary, Jesus taught the following:

  • The religion he was founding would never end.
  • The religion would be corrupted, especially as time progressed.
  • The religious faithful would be few.
  • The religious would be characterized by (a) love and (b) suffering and persecution.

By virtue of his resurrection, Jesus had full authority to set the terms of his religion. Why then is anyone surprised that the religion he founded has turned out as expected?

When I look around I see the corruption, same as anyone else who cares to see. I also see the faithful few, characterized by their suffering and their love. Yet I won’t abandon ship—it isn’t sinking. I take the label of Christian because the Christ is my master, not because of what anyone else says or does. For better or worse, our actions—not labels—tell the story of who we are and where our allegiance lies. I’m okay with that.

† For sake of argument

37 thoughts on “Why Christianity Redux”

  1. These days, it’s getting too easy to confuse feminist infused churchianity with the real thing.

  2. It’s acceptable for Boxer to despise Christianity for the behavior of its members. We are God’s ambassadors, after all, and non-believers judge God by the behavior of believers. Our own standard is defining the tree by its fruit, yes?

    By the same token, when our persecution starts and we suffer easily avoidable fates because of Christ, God will be respected once again. Persecution isn’t for our benefit. It’s for the people who need to see to believe. They can be saints, too. Ask Saint Thomas.

    What they see right now is apart from a few outliers, Christianity ain’t even shit. I don’t fault them for believing what they see.

  3. “Our own standard is defining the tree by its fruit, yes?”

    Indeed. Christianity and its members are defined by the fruit of their actions, not their identity. So when others take the name Christianity and misuse it, there really isn’t anything I can or should do about it. It’s inevitable.

    “It’s acceptable for Boxer to despise Christianity for the behavior of its members… I don’t fault them for believing what they see.”

    And he won’t get any objection from people like myself. There really isn’t any benefit to making “No True Scotsman” arguments with Boxer re Christianity. I’m ashamed when anyone (myself included) fails to follow the master. These are legitimate objections. Yet at the end of the day, when people calling themselves Christian do not follow Jesus, it is Jesus that rejects them. Leaving the religion just doesn’t make sense.

    “Persecution isn’t for our benefit. It’s for the people who need to see to believe. “

    This is essential. We do not suffer for our own benefit. Suffering—be it avoidable or not—allows us to show love to others.

  4. In case Boxer returns from his hiatus soon, I want to clarify/refine part of the argument.

    Science, logic, and philosophy shows that the universe had a beginning and things with beginnings have causes. Life appears designed, that is, created. Combine the two and you have compelling evidence of a transcendent creator (rather than, say, aliens seeding life). Add in other arguments (e.g. the fine-tuning argument or Anselm’s proof) to strengthen the argument as needed.

    Having reasonably established that there is a creator, that doesn’t completely satisfy. We need to know the identity and whether we can even comprehend and know an “entity” of such immense proportions. This is where the existence, death, and resurrection of Jesus matters. Mythicists are not taken seriously by most historians. For the death and resurrection, the historical evidence is quite strong. Sure it isn’t without a shadow of a doubt, but it’s better than competing explanations and alternative religions.

    Pair the existence of a creator and creation with the resurrection of Jesus and you get a solid, consistent case for Christianity—from fields outside of religion. The existence of terrible Christians isn’t enough to override the basic facts and there isn’t enough from science or philosophy to compel an alternative. Regardless of whether or not you think that the Bible is literal or figurative, poetry or history, fact or fiction, etc., the evidence very nearly obligates us to follow Jesus.

    The wacko part of Christianity is the way it treats suffering. The problem of evil is truly the most significant obstacle against a belief in God. Yet Christianity neither justifies nor downplays suffering, it embraces it—turning suffering into love and goodness. It makes perfect sense while simultaneously being completely nuts.

  5. Pingback: - Derek L. Ramsey
  6. Respectfully and I’m probably wrong but I imagine our Boxer, being an ex-mormon, is inoculated against becoming Christian because of subconscious Mormon presuppositions. It would be difficult for him to become Christian as he’d have to separate it out from Mormonism (which at the time he thought was Christianity). Much like often ex-Muslims become atheist rather Christian because they retain their anti- Christian presuppositions.

  7. (Continued..)
    The other major obstacle for our Boxer imo is his being an intellectual. They tend to lean too much on their own understanding. The two major factors make it nigh impossible humanely speaking for him to become Christian as he’d have to become a blank slate. Not to mention the outside factors such as the abysmal state of the church etc.

  8. It’s acceptable for Boxer to despise Christianity for the behavior of its members. We are God’s ambassadors, after all, and non-believers judge God by the behavior of believers. Our own standard is defining the tree by its fruit, yes?

    While you do have a point that nominal Christians make Christianity look bad to people like Boxer…Bishop Fulton Sheen also presents this retort.

    I do know Boxer even though he lives a promiscous lifestyle, has been intrigued by the virtue of chastity before. All it takes is someone who actually lives it to point it out and why it is beneficial. I’m starting to get why…it makes a man more masculine and stronger. Roosh has pointed out a similar thing on twitter about how he thought promiscuity was masculine and how wrong he was.

  9. I don’t take anything Roosh says seriously. I also think he’s 85% talk. He never was that much a ladies man……watch his clips in action…..he fails mostly, and all these women he has “supposedly” been with have deleted accounts, fake names…….he’s just a braggart that got lucky with way above average looking drunk party-girl here and there….and he’s viewed as a “master”

  10. Derek, I agree with your post………in my own Christian walk now………I am depressed and sad. I can’t get upset at God…….I can’t go back to what I “once was” nor can I make excuses to behave one way or another, and still sit on a saintly throne and speak in sactimonious tones like the crew at the usual places (DS / Dalrock et al) “if I only was just like them, then there would be no problems”

    I am not a snob in my faith, I am still not wholly convinced that I may indeed be allowed into the Kingdom when I breathe my last. My tempers are fitful, my pain and aching for friendships does not abate…..and I have a prayer life that is dangerously fervent……hours at night……..

    My real issue with eternity is that I am going to have to share it with folks who still are so confident of their own salvation, their amazing skills, gifts, talents, children, wives………..I am still going to be “one upped” in heaven like I am on earth, and not just for a “life” of 70 years if I am lucky on earth……but for eternity.

    Could I spend an eternity with so many Christians I have met over the past decade or so who just know more, are more, have more, blessed more, rewarded more, all these great gifts and favor from God…………?

    At this point I don’t know if I could, or if I would want to.

  11. I am still going to be “one upped” in heaven like I am on earth …

    Hopefully that is some sarcasm, and not how you view things as being done in God’s heaven.

    When we pray “Your will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven”, we’re not praying for earth to become a giant reenactment of your Junior High school years or any other earthly order.

    The Parable of the Wedding Feast
    Luke 14:7 Now he told a parable to those who were invited, when he noticed how they chose the places of honor, saying to them, 8 “When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him, 9 and he who invited you both will come and say to you, ‘Give your place to this person,’ and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place. 10 But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, ‘Friend, move up higher.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you. 11 For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

    Matthew 19:30/Mark 10:31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.

    Rest assured! God will order everything in its rightful place in accordance with His holiness, and surely His goodness and mercy will follow you, as you dwell in the house of the Lord forever.

    Revelation 14:3b No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4 It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, 5 and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.

    In heaven, God has told us, that He favors those who have not defiled themselves with women. Don’t regret being a virgin. It will become a recognized work worthy of great honor, that you kept your temple undefiled with women. None of us will be allowed to sing that song to the glory of God, or to go with Jesus everywhere He goes. God will set all thigs right, He will make all things new. Don’t be deceived. Don’t misjudge the glory that awaits you. Fight the good fight, keep the faith. Do not be weary in welldoing. Your reward will not fail.

  12. Sharkly still walks among us! What is new?
    Your question of how to respond to a specific provocation from your wife is hard. I think it was her asking if you will promise not to abuse her.
    You could use logic and ask her to name 5 specific items of abuse.
    However, if she is doo-doo for brains, then you might want to say yes, despite what it feels like, because she could be looking to hurt you with the question. You’ve decided to bless her with reconciliation so what’s one more jab to get there. But if she is avoidant like you say, then I wonder what she would say if she heard yes, when she almost certainly doesn’t expect to hear it.

  13. @He-man

    “The other major obstacle for our Boxer imo is his being an intellectual.”

    I relate to this. This is why I often make arguments from science, logic, math, history, philosophy, etc… anything but religious arguments. For the intellectual, religious arguments come last, after the other evidence has been gathered and evaluated.

    As I perceive it, Boxer’s biggest objections to Christianity are the problem of evil and the poor quality of many Christians. While I targeted these topics in this post, ultimately I was merely responding to his suggestion that we abandon Christianity. If he doesn’t wish to join us, that’s his call to make. But if he wants to make such suggestions, he’s got to make the case. Good luck with that, I say.

  14. “I imagine our Boxer, being an ex-mormon, is inoculated against becoming Christian because of subconscious Mormon presuppositions. “

    Unlike stock Christianity, the Mormon folk religion is among the most anti-intellectual religions in the world, right up there with Scientology. It’s truly bizarre. It’s founder was a convicted con-artist. The religion makes all of these historically falsifiable claims that turn out to have zero evidence supporting them. The Holy Books are full of historical anachronisms. I’m not sure how Boxer, being an historian, maintains his affinity for the Mormons, despite his familial ties. Moreover, I don’t know how anyone who examines Mormonism can mistake it for Christianity.

  15. God could care less about our predictaments Sharkly…….and when it comes to these matters, I was forced to STAY in jr high while the rest of you got to have sex, date, date, date, flirt, be endeared…..still be endeared………father children…get divorced, remarry in many cases…….you all get Eternity, and I will be regulated to the tent in the proverbial back yard in heaven. I cannot imagine being in eternity sitting with Dalrock and others waxing how awesome they were, and even if I made it……still it would “not be as good as them”

    I don’t think I could spend eternity with a a gazillion “real alpha men”

    Defiled myself with women……..guess what my man……they were pretty repulsed by me for the most part, even the “lower looking ones”

    I do want to ask God: why was I made ugly, why was I given a brother with Down Syndrome, and why was I made an addict

  16. @70sJason bro check out a short story, Revelation, by Flannery O’Connor.

    @Ramsey, what I don’t get about Mormonism is its apparent good fruit relative to other sects.

  17. “what I don’t get about Mormonism is its apparent good fruit relative to other sects.”

    Do you wonder why Boxer calls Judaism, Christianity, and Mormonism folk religions? From the perspective of the modern concept of history, these religions are not histories but collections of myths and stories in a certain cultural setting. Among the devout Christians that frequent this blog are many contradictory viewpoints and disagreements (e.g. Brother Earl’s mockery of Protestants). It is my belief that a great amount of what constitutes religion and religious observance is largely superfluous. A person can hold incorrect beliefs and still be an effective follower of Jesus.

    Mormons can bear fruit because they follow Jesus, crazy beliefs notwithstanding.

    Consider the Sheep and the Goats.

  18. He-Man read it in college. If “heaven” is honestly redeemed as a reward in matters the story spoke of………….they’re all still going, and I will still be forced to spend eternity with “who did more” “who had more” “and who is more”

    The lesson in the story is a “good” one, with that said it won’t change a thing here, or after

  19. Interesting point, Ramsey.

    70’sJason, seems counterproductive to imagine Heaven that way (to me sounds more like a description of Hell). By definition if God willing we get there we’ll all be purged of all our sins including boredom, arrogance, envy, and self-pity. I also long for communion of the saints, as a chronic sufferer of loneliness and alienation imagine the bliss of being known and loved for who one is.

  20. These days, it’s getting too easy to confuse feminist infused churchianity with the real thing.

    There’s no confusion. There’s also no such thing as “feminist infused churchianity.” It’s just Christianity: a religion for faggots, led by feminist bulldykes.

    By the same token, when our persecution starts and we suffer easily avoidable fates because of Christ, God will be respected once again. Persecution isn’t for our benefit. It’s for the people who need to see to believe. They can be saints, too. Ask Saint Thomas.

    You really shouldn’t compare yourself to heroes. You’re the furthest thing from the old church martyrs. There is no persecution, and yet you guys never so much as spoke out, when your churches were being overrun by child-rapists. Your pathetic leaders or “gurus”, like Dalrock and Cane Caldo, haven’t lifted a finger in the real world to resist this.

    Science, logic, and philosophy shows that the universe had a beginning and things with beginnings have causes. Life appears designed, that is, created. Combine the two and you have compelling evidence of a transcendent creator (rather than, say, aliens seeding life). Add in other arguments (e.g. the fine-tuning argument or Anselm’s proof) to strengthen the argument as needed.

    I suspect that someone built my house. That doesn’t mean that the contractor’s name was “Joe,” and that he somehow raised himself from the dead.

    Having reasonably established that there is a creator, that doesn’t completely satisfy. We need to know the identity and whether we can even comprehend and know an “entity” of such immense proportions. This is where the existence, death, and resurrection of Jesus matters. Mythicists are not taken seriously by most historians. For the death and resurrection, the historical evidence is quite strong.

    If there were any historical evidence, we could talk about it. There is not only none, but there’s tons of evidence that no such person ever existed.

    Compare Jesus with, say, Muhammad, about whom we actually have lots of data, this despite the fact that Muhammad lived out in the middle of nowhere, and Jesus lived in the freakin’ Roman Empire, where everything was meticulously recorded, and the contrast becomes pretty stark.

    Sure it isn’t without a shadow of a doubt, but it’s better than competing explanations and alternative religions.

    No, it’s not. Muslims and Buddhists don’t agitate for fag marriage and easy divorce in congress. Only Christians do that.

    Unlike stock Christianity, the Mormon folk religion is among the most anti-intellectual religions in the world, right up there with Scientology. It’s truly bizarre. It’s founder was a convicted con-artist. The religion makes all of these historically falsifiable claims that turn out to have zero evidence supporting them. The Holy Books are full of historical anachronisms. I’m not sure how Boxer, being an historian, maintains his affinity for the Mormons, despite his familial ties. Moreover, I don’t know how anyone who examines Mormonism can mistake it for Christianity.

    That’s a low-effort attempt to troll. Next you’ll be telling people I’m Jewish, and in league with with the Zionist Occupation Government, in the pay of Soros, and etc.. At that point we’ll have Dalrock’s blog in microcosm. lol

    Boxer

  21. “That’s a low-effort attempt to troll. “

    I examined the evidence in depth when I considered a conversion to Mormonism. These are my personal conclusions, not trolling. I do not comprehend how an historian doesn’t come to the same conclusions, but that lack of understanding is on me, not you.

    “If there were any historical evidence, we could talk about it. There is not only none, but there’s tons of evidence that no such person ever existed.”

    We could talk about it. Maybe we will.

  22. “I suspect that someone built my house. That doesn’t mean that the contractor’s name was “Joe,” and that he somehow raised himself from the dead.”

    I wonder, do you reject all four of my premises? Let’s take this one step at a time. Do you acknowledge that cause of the universe was supernatural?

  23. You guys do a marvelous job of proving my original points.

    Let’s take this one step at a time.

    Why would I indulge someone with such a history of bad-faith arguments?

    Go do something to reclaim the Christianity of 100 years ago, rather than insulting and bearing false-witness against men on the internet.

  24. “Why would I indulge someone with such a history of bad-faith arguments?”

    I don’t know what bad-faith arguments you refer to, but you don’t have to indulge me either way. If you do, I’ll make reasoned arguments. If you don’t, I’ll let it rest. But you have asked me in the past to address the problem of evil and the only way to do this is to establish the baseline premises, one step at a time.

    “Go do something to reclaim the Christianity of 100 years ago, rather than insulting and bearing false-witness against men on the internet.”

    I was not trying to insult you and I apologize for doing so.

    If I was bearing false witness, it was unintentional. When someone makes a controversial claim, they can be asked to back it up with evidence. So, I’ll provide sources or retract any statement you contest.

    As for reclaiming Christianity, I do what I can.

  25. He-Man……..don’t know where you have been…….but in the Christian man-o-sphere……..these men are blameless and spotless already! They have it all figured out. If we just read Rollo, be Alpha, bench some crazy weight by / with so many reps….everything is gonna be great!

    What is it worth to go to Eternity to a place where the spotless walk among us here?

    I make a terrible Christian, and probably would be out of place in Heaven too at this point.

    Living a Christian walk in my gifts (I of course was given the useless ones) gets me zero, gives me no joy….yet on I go but for what?

    To sit in Heaven for Eternity with the likes of men who just by existing, professing Christ were rewarded fully here on earth, and will be rewarded even more greatly in heaven???

    I don’t know………..I just wish I was self-assured as everyone else was about how awesome they are…..maybe I would be too I have had what they had by the luck of the draw they had.

    I am trying to imagine just being there with a bunch of fellow supposed brothers who exhibit little or no Christian duty except by knocking other Christians, quoting Scripture and talking down to anyone who asks a question. I don’t think I could bear an eternity with them, and the countless millions upon millions like them.

    I have prayed fervently over the years for the “joy” and happiness, and I get an endless ring. I am just starting to think I wasted a lot of time…….I joined a “club” that still operates on really nothing Holy…….do you know how hard it is to find someone to pray with for more than a minute????????

    The ironic thing is…..let’s suppose what I am saying is 1% true…………..I’ll still be made into 99% wrong 🙂

  26. seventiesjason says:
    2019-05-02 at 16:11
    “I am still not wholly convinced that I may indeed be allowed into the Kingdom when I breathe my last.”

    Relax. If you’ve accepted Christ’s offer and hate whatever evil tendencies you have then you’re golden. The people who lose out in Heaven are the ones who had it easy on Earth… never tested, never proven, thus, never significant.

  27. Swanny River,

    Yes, I’ve been busy messing around in meat space. So my online presence has been quite spotty. My wife is as deluded as ever, but I do think she may be tiring of her own games. I seem to be at war with the whole world right now, but I think I’m winning. LOL
    I went down to confront the elder board at my wife’s church for being worthless pussies who are ashamed of God’s word and refuse to address my wife’s frivolous divorce. They called off the meeting, which was to be a part of their elder’s meeting, the day I was to meet them. Well, I decided I’d go confront those cunt-worshippers anyhow, since I knew they’d be there. They had the building all locked up, and I went around checking all the doors, until I happened to find the window to the room they were meeting in. They saw me and tried to ignore me, however I knocked on the window a few times, until they must have figured out that I wasn’t going to just leave. Then in what seemed really like something out of a comedy, they came over to one of the glass doors in a glass wall, and they had the strongest one of them pop the door open stick his head out and brace himself in the doorway, as the others all stood cowering inside listening through the partially open doorway. They seemed frightened and had no good answers as I called them all cowards, who didn’t give a shit my son’s were being robbed of their father. The guy in the doorway kept whining because I’d told him “you’re fucking worthless” over the phone when they’d even chickened out of meeting with me. He kept brining it up like I was supposed to apologize. Usually in those types of situations I would just explain more clearly why I believe they’re fucking worthless as a Christians, elders, and false teachers, but I didn’t get the chance to. The dude claimed they’d get back with me, and popped back inside the building. They still haven’t, but I found our brief meeting satisfying. I asked them in the name of Jesus Christ to quit being ashamed of God’s word and preach submission to my wife, for the sake of my children. I called them all cowards to their faces and watched through the tinted glass wall, they were cowering behind, trying to make eye contact, as they all just stared at their feet, and the guy wedged in the doorway kept watching me like he was ready to shit his pants, if I had lunged towards him. Anyhow, I left feeling good. I’m not sure how the five of them dusted off their manhoods after I left. I don’t believe I ever got as far down the cunt-worshipping rabbit hole as they are, but it seems somehow that my blue-pill past from a little over a year ago, now seems a lifetime ago.

    I’ve also been battling with my employer. That usually doesn’t go too well, for the employee, but so far I’m still employed there. So far, I’m just a persistent internal whistleblower, but we’ll see if they would rather go through the public court system with me, and defend their putting the safety of the flying public at risk to save a buck, via fraud, falsification, corruption, and all manner of needless evils. At this moment I probably won’t say too much more about this, other than my direct management is making eight hours of each weekday horrid for me, while upper management is, yet again, claiming they’ll look into matters. I’ll be speaking to some new folks about the matter on Tuesday, and may have clearer direction then. The morals of our country really are going down the toilet. The company I work for is one of the most highly trusted, and it is run like a crime ring internally. How is a person with integrity supposed to function in this world? Am I supposed to go to work for a shadier competitor? I’m kind of at a life and career inflection point. I’d like to move to a Godlier place than the buckle of the Bible belt, but I’m not sure where that even is.

  28. I went down to confront the elder board at my wife’s church for being worthless pussies who are ashamed of God’s word and refuse to address my wife’s frivolous divorce. They called off the meeting, which was to be a part of their elder’s meeting, the day I was to meet them. Well, I decided I’d go confront those cunt-worshippers anyhow, since I knew they’d be there.

    This is a hilarious story, and one which may end up being discussed here.

    Good on you for calling the feminists to account. Next time, post vid.

  29. There are some reading here that might find the following useful. I just posted it to someone else’s account a few days ago, in reponse to a comment that they made. It is a bit of a read, but it may be useful to some.

    Someone said: … i still screwed up, a lot. but i’ve tried to acknowledge it immediately and ask for forgiveness immediately …

    It’s interesting that you should say that. I’m working on a larger point having to do with Paul’s discussion about eating food offered to idols and his proclamation that whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Some thought eating meat offered to idols was sin, others did not think so. Paul basically said, do whatever your concience dictates. Given that we all have differing levels of mental ability and ability to comprehend things, we are bound to have differing interpretations of things said in the Bible. Some will think a particular passage means “A” and others will think it means “B” or “C” or otherwise. It occured to me that Paul’s admonition was addressing our perceived willingness to disobey God. Do we think a certain thing is forbidden by God? Then, by faith, don’t do it. If you think God forbids something and you do it anyway, you have displayed a willingness to disobey God – regardless of whether God actually did forbid the matter in view.

    In the context of that larger discussion that I am jotting down thoughts on, a few points occured to me this morning that I jotted down. I think they address the larger issue of what you said “I still screwed up a lot, but …” Note that this is in rough form. I will return to it later, read through it, other thoughts will occur to me, and I will probably reformat the the written thought progression. But it occurs to me that you might get what I am saying here. I am not interested in starting a conversation in this thread. But if something makes you go “huh??”, you might point that out in this thread. I can read a few words and it will remind me of a much larger conversation in my head where this all makes sense. I understand that others don’t have that larger conversation in their head and so they might not get what I intend for them to get. I’m going to paste the material in the next post.

  30. Then there is this:

    Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Matthew 5:48 (kjv) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_5:48

    The regular sense of the word translated into English as “perfect” is to be complete, whole. Consider this quote from Wikipedia:

    There is some debate about the meaning of the injunction to be “perfect,” since orthodox Christianity teaches that creatures cannot achieve God’s level of perfection.

    The term rendered “perfect” in most English translations is τέλειοι (teleioi), the same word used in the Septuagint for תָּמִים and meaning “brought to its end, finished; lacking nothing necessary to completeness.”.[2] According to Barnes, “Originally, it is applied to a piece of mechanism, as a machine that is complete in its parts. Applied to people, it refers to completeness of parts, or perfection, where no part is defective or wanting.” [3] Some link the Gospel’s use of the term with its use by the Greek philosophers. To them something was perfect if it fully be its intended function.

    And what are we when we are “perfect”. That is, what are we when we are fully our intended function? Not without blemish or defect, or even sin. Rather, we are finished, lacking nothing, in pointing to Jesus’ shed blood as sufficient for the covering of our sins when the Holy Spirit calls us to repentance. In being “perfect” in this way, we are not without blemish in our own right, but are “finished” according to his purposes in God’s sight.

    We are made perfect, whole, finished, made to be fully our intended function, only by the grace of God coupled with our weakness and infirmities. Our “perfection” is not possible if one of those two is missing.

    My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect (complete, whole) in (your) weakness. 2 Corinthians 12:9 (nkjv)

    If we believe the Bible, then we must accept this point: becoming perfect, complete, whole, made fully our intended function can be accomplished only in our weakness. For it is then that God’s grace and strength accomplish their intended function by becoming perfect in blotting out our sin.
    ——-

    One other thought. The New Testament says that, without faith, it is impossible to please God.

    ** Where proof exists, faith is not required;
    ** Where faith is required, proof cannot exist

  31. Jason, not all of us who are married with kids are not the ‘super alpha’ and have it super easy, my story is similar to Sharky’s. And honestly I envy you, think about that for a moment.

    I’m married, have 2 kids, women say I’m ‘handsome’, I’m highly specialized engineer, and I ‘lift lots of weight’…but what I don’t have is PEACE.

    I’m married to a BPD wife that has not only mentally tortured me she also been physically abusive.. Friday morning I found out she hired a attorney for $10K, she’s hit all the bank accounts and cleaned them out and maxed out my credit card. While I was out of town for work of course.

    5 months after our second child was born, I was excited that maybe God would bless us with a third. Her second pregnancy was really difficult, and she ‘coded’ during labor. When I asked her, with excitement “what would she do if she found out she was pregnant again?”

    Her response: “I would march myself down to Planned Parenthood and take care of it.”

    That was almost 13 yrs ago, I have been living this nightmare day in and day out trying to glorify God daily, trying to live in peace with an unbelieving wife.

    Brother, let me just say 1st, you inspire me with devotion to Christ! I have read your testimony, and it encourages me, if Christ can pull you out of the pit that you were in, he will help me too.

    You have spent countless hours sharing Christ with the lost, I can’t say that. It might not feel like it, but brother you are one of the Saints of old that walk the earth and encourage the rest of us. Keep the faith brother.

  32. Hey, I just fired up a WordPress blog. Y’all feel free to help me get it tested and get the bugs worked out. you could be the first commenter.
    https://laf443259520.wordpress.com/
    They wouldn’t let me be named Sharkly, because I apparently already was using that name. LOL I’ll have to see if I can get my name fixed.

  33. Busy weekend. Will be in Malibu for the “managers conference” for my company for the next week or so…..flying out tomorrow morning. A waste of time, but I have to go. Maybe I’ll get some sun, I’ll have permission to wear top-siders and bermuda shorts with a polo for a week during seminars and workshops in a casual environment. All the property managers from my company in California, Nevada, and Arizona are going to be there. Probably a 200 of us total.

    Was on some MGTOW live-stream chat last night…….all were talking about the “event that is going to change the world”

    Christ returning? Social Security is finally solvent and fixed? National debt going down?

    No…….nothing hard or life changing. Evidently there was a “mens conference” in Florida of all places this past weekend. All the self-proclaimed big shots were there. For about $2,000.00 not including your flight, spending money, meals, hotels (and its tourist season in Florida…..higher rates than usual) you could learn how to be an amazing man!

    Sound like PUA “boot camps” redux from the early 2000’s.

    Like the managers conference I am going to……a bunch of “gladhanding” and “penis measuring” probably went on. Like the Christian counterpart of “mens retreats” a bunch of men talking about how amazing they are, how they are capable, how smart, how manly, how awesome……….and it will be declared as a huge success……and nothing will change.

    I had the financial means to go. I have plenty of vacation to use to travel there if I had wanted to.

    I don’t need to learn how to be a man, or social cues about what “women really mean when they tell you anything”. I don’t need to learn how to dress myself. I don’t need to hear ‘again’ that somehow, someway….if you are not attracting women you’re a pussy………even if you are married……………..I don’t need to hear how men have “no rights” and we’re being hearded into a work camp.

    I have better things to waste my time, energy and money on. As for being a man? Pretty simple. My yes means yes. My no means no. I am responsible to my job and exceed all expectations. My word is of granite. My faith is humble. When I take a leak in the morning I look down, and my guy parts are there.

    I don’t need to spens that kind of money to learn how to be a man.

    I mentioned this on the live stream chat, and of course………..I was a feminist, tradcon-cucked-jerk who was selling out to feminism.

    PUA redux.

    I’ll be back around the 18th. Have a good time without me……..which really won’t be hard to do 😉

  34. Dear Jason:

    No…….nothing hard or life changing. Evidently there was a “mens conference” in Florida of all places this past weekend. All the self-proclaimed big shots were there. For about $2,000.00 not including your flight, spending money, meals, hotels (and its tourist season in Florida…..higher rates than usual) you could learn how to be an amazing man!

    Right. I have no issue with any man who chooses to go to such things. Networking isn’t terrible; but, most of the information is free. I’ve seen Jack Donovan speak at such events (he’s a regular guest), and he never tells the audience anything that isn’t covered in his books (which are excellent). Rollo Tomassi speaks at these things, and usually puts his speeches up on youtube, which interested men can watch at no cost.

    I don’t need to learn how to be a man, or social cues about what “women really mean when they tell you anything”. I don’t need to learn how to dress myself. I don’t need to hear ‘again’ that somehow, someway….if you are not attracting women you’re a pussy………even if you are married……………..I don’t need to hear how men have “no rights” and we’re being hearded into a work camp.

    I remember as a young kid, listening to Alex Jones talk about George W Bush and Barack Obama and how we’re all going to be killed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency. He’d also spend lots of time talking about how “the illuminati,” (along with space aliens, Jews and freemasons) controlled us. I’m sure he sold lots of overpriced multivitamins thanks to all these ridiculous spook-stories. Very interesting to note that he’s never talked about single moms, divorce courts, or big corporations like amazon and Wal-Mart.

    I have better things to waste my time, energy and money on. As for being a man? Pretty simple. My yes means yes. My no means no. I am responsible to my job and exceed all expectations. My word is of granite. My faith is humble. When I take a leak in the morning I look down, and my guy parts are there.

    As I’ve grown older, I realize that this is the best time to be alive, and I thank my creator for making me a man.

  35. Have no idea who Jack Donovan is….sounds like a detective from 1970’s cop TV show / sitcom. Rollo? Well….we Christian men are supposed to be praying to him now, since he’s the incarnate of Christ Jesus. All the other men at this conference I have never heard of…lots of fitness / workout types speaking…….a guy with nasty looking beard and a bad suit, and a windsor knotted tie is gonna tell me about style…..looks like he walked out of an airport lounge from 1973.

    Motivational speakers, oh…ummm…excuse me….I mean “life coaching” guys because “coaching” is guy talk…..meaning sports……it’s relational you know.

    I have no problem with networking so to speak. What I have a problem with is “who” went? Jeff-Bob who got a frivorce from his wife, now has to live with his aging parents in his teenage bedroom and is clueless on how to navigate family court and is working two part-time jobs to avoid jail to make those “payments” I am sure didn’t have the means or opportunity to go. Calvin who is a nice guy,young, and starting out is a clueless blue-pilled guy who needs guidance and an actual friend wouldn’t be welcome with “You’re such a chump!” attitude. Jose who is working minimum wage, is growing his skills, is married….but its hard…..two kids, another on the way just doesn’t “have time” or the “means” to go to a conference and have men tell him “he’s not a real man”

    If, as a man….you are expecting these men to “help” you in your life with workshops, books, podcasts, speeches, confusing terms, charts, and some “secret” on how to fix your life……you might get just as much out of an Amway sales pitch, or some other scheme (PUA bootcamps come to mind).

    I can tell you who “did” go. Men who consider themselves red-pilled, chest thumpers, who already know, follow and worship all these speakers.

    Like the managers conference I am going to……….very little will be learned, let alone applied……but we all got to spend a week in Malibu. Isn’t that nice????

    -out

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